It seems quite clear that GNU/Linux is changing into something radically different from how it's been for the past decade or so. Truly radical changes are coming.
I'm sure a lot of you are GNU/Linux users. How do you show information about your network interfaces? How do you print your routing table? How do you view the arp cache?
Your answers are probably ifconfig, route, and arp. However, these commands we've always known are being depreciated in favor of ones from the iproute2 suite, so in the future you will be typing ip addr, ip route, and ip neigh for those respective functions.
For decades, UNIX and Linux systems have used the X windows system. This is going to, in time, be replaced by Wayland. It's currently too early for a full switchover, but with both the GNOME and KDE projects, plus Debian and Fedora supporting it, it looks like it'll happen sooner than we thought. It's a huge change, and with it completely eliminating screen tearing and having much better security, I think it will be a positive one.
Speaking of security, I'm sure you're all familiar with iptables. Well say goodbye to that, because it's being replaced by nftables. This aims to be better by being more minimal, or rather just putting a lot of the code in userland rather than kernelspace. Also better syntax.
For the longest time, GNU/Linux users got their software from distro repositories. Despite many users claiming this is the best way to do things, it has had some criticisms. Therefore, there have been a few projects hoping to solve the issues and make the process of getting software more friendly to users of mainstream OSes.
What do you think of these changes? Do you have any examples I may have missed?
>Do you have any examples I may have missed?
>What do you think of these changes?
I am surprised that those new tools are not part of SystemD.
Ah yes, although I didn't include it because the switchover happened for most distros a while ago.
Although what's interesting is that Alpine is apparently doing pretty well in the docker world, and could expand into the router and server markets as well, and it uses OpenRC. Maybe we'll be seeing another init system shift at some point?
You are total faggot.
As far as these distro-agnostic packages, I think we're going to end up with two being used for different things: Either AppImage AND Snap, or Appimage and Flatpak.
AppImage is just more convenient for testing alpha/beta software than either other, so I don't see it being abandoned once the other format is victorious over the other. Basically, AppImage for testing and Flatpak/Snap for general distribution.
We are getting hardware-based DRM with the upcoming kernel lockdown so the normies can enjoy their Premium™ content.
Look at the most popular apps on these stores, they are not free.
Gnome and KDE are not the only choices. Repos will never be replaced by appimages. And Linux has never had a real firewall, and for 99% of users, iptables is irrelevant.
The spacing triggers my autism
I have not idea if it's good.
what's the point ?
Ultimate cancer to EEE free software with proprietary software.
I'm so glad I use OpenBSD.
What really? This is extremely shitty.
I installed it on an old Thinkpad and it's super comfy. I do run Devuan on my main machine though, but the poz is coming from all directions now and who knows how long they'll be able to hold out.
Thank science for apulse though.
If you're saying that because you think i'm a shill for systemd in some way, i'm not.
My suggestion that a new init shift could happen was kind of a hope of mine. I'd love to see Alpine and OpenRC succeed.
Yeah i've heard as much. I think Flatpak will win. Snaps, despite being advertised as universal, seem to be mostly an Ubuntu thing.
I can understand why they'd do it though. Normies on Windows or MacOS likely already watch this premium content, so Linux not supporting it would seem like a major inconvenience to them, a fault in the OS, and a reason not to use GNU/Linux.
Good thing there's Linux-libre I guess...
>Gnome and KDE are not the only choices
indeed. I never said they were, but they are two of the most popular ones.
If you want a tiling WM, there's Sway, which looks pretty comfy.
>Repos will never be replaced by appimages.
never said they would, but things such as this will have a place in our application distribution and installation.
>And Linux has never had a real firewall
>and for 99% of users, iptables is irrelevant.
true. The syntax of things such as iptables and even the new nft is hard for the average person to wrap their head around. That's why there's convenient frontends like ufw (Uncomplicated Firewall) or its GUI version, gufw.
Sorry you feel that way. I think a lot of these changes are pretty interesting.
>The spacing triggers my autism
Yeah it's quite weird. I suppose you could alias them though
>I have not idea if it's good.
I think it is. There's a lot of FUD about it, but honestly a lot of the issues it has are because of it being new. The main complaint i've heard is that it's not "network transparent" like X is. Once there's a compositor-independent option for remote desktop/screen and window sharing, that'll be sorted out.
>Ultimate cancer to EEE free software with proprietary software.
I don't see how it's EEE in any way. I do agree it could be a way to more easily get proprietary software though.
BSD does seem like a good choice for those who want an extremely traditional experience. I might even consider checking out either OpenBSD or perhaps NetBSD at some point. I'm glad those will still be around (not FreeBSD though. They don't like hugs)
Who cares? Just fucking stick to ifconfig and avoid the redhat/CIA iproute2 suit.
Wayland is already in a fully usable state with all the apps you could want except for vidya.
And even vidya will run in xwayland at this point. The only reason we haven't seen a switch is
because most distros use shitty bloat that is X dependent and they don't want to get rid of
Cool a second firewall. Just means more options.
Everything they are trying now has been tryed of old. There is nothing new in the application
distribution, only what you don't remember. Nothing new under the sun.
>What do you think of these changes?
Their ok, just means more options. Wayland is a step in the right direction for GUI security
though, even if shit compared to true security setups. I think redhat/CIA will continue to take
over GPL projects as the only contributer so (((they))) can re-liscense the applications and
libraries to something other then GPL in the future.
>Do you have any examples I may have missed?
Systemdick and init systems.
This is fine, I've switched to using ip a while ago.
I haven't done enough research into Wayland, but it sounds like it requires a lot more work to create a WM since Wayland expects the compositor to do a lot of stuff.
>completely eliminating screen tearing
I don't get screen tearing with X out of the box.
I have no opinion on this.
If you want to release a system general release of your application just release a tar of the source with compile instructions. For switching to flatpack / snappies your distro essentially has to support another package manger. Switching to flatpack / snappies is the equivalent to saying that we would only need to create 1 package if all distributions used the same package manager. From the perspective of a Gentoo user it appears really idiotic. Gentoo essentially uses 1 package manager for everything at least it tries to.
AppImages I don't think are as bad, but they do result in bloated binary releases. A concern I have for it is that if they use a vulnerable library, you have to upgrade every application in your system which bundles it in instead of just upgrading the library in a single place.
>Do you have any examples I may have missed?
netstat -> ss
>Who cares? Just fucking stick to ifconfig and avoid the redhat/CIA iproute2 suit.
wait, is iproute2 poetteringware? Does it have telemetry? I'll avoid a kneejerk reaction until I have some proof of it being compromised.
>Wayland is already in a fully usable state with all the apps you could want except for vidya. And even vidya will run in xwayland at this point. The only reason we haven't seen a switch is because most distros use shitty bloat that is X dependent and they don't want to get rid of because (((reasons)))
I fully agree. I've seen anons say shit like "Wayland is dependent on systemd avoid like the plague!!" or something to that effect. Couldn't be further from the truth really. GNOME certainly does, but it did that even on X anyway.
>Cool a second firewall. Just means more options.
A replacement firewall. I like the idea.
>Everything they are trying now has been tryed of old. There is nothing new in the application distribution, only what you don't remember. Nothing new under the sun.
Interesting. I am unfamiliar with these earlier attempts. Mind explaining?
I do think that these new ones will be quite successful. I hear pirates are starting to distribute games in flatpak.
>Systemdick and init systems.
You realize distro-agnostic packages means it's easier to distribute newer versions of libre software too, right?
>A concern I have for it is that if they use a vulnerable library, you have to upgrade every application in your system which bundles it in instead of just upgrading the library in a single place.
This is a problem for Appimage and Snap, but less so for Flatpak.
>I don't get screen tearing with X out of the box.
Me neither for years and years. Is this really a problem?
>I've seen anons say shit like "Wayland is dependent on systemd avoid like the plague!!" or something to that effect.
So it isn't? I don't know shit about wayland, I don't keep up with new stuff.
The BSDs wouldn't be able to use Wayland if it depended on systemd.
>Is this really a problem?
Of course not, but it's on the list that shills have, like image previews in the file picker.
Wayland is cancer of its own type and breaks everything. I've seen no proof that it's pozzed botnet shitware but I am betting we will find out it is.
>This is fine, I've switched to using ip a while ago.
As have I. It doesn't make much of a difference to me overall. I just find it interesting because the basic ifconfig, route, and arp commands have been used for so long, and are now being replaced.
>I haven't done enough research into Wayland, but it sounds like it requires a lot more work to create a WM since Wayland expects the compositor to do a lot of stuff.
Indeed. Thankfully even though that will reduce options, there will still be plenty to choose from. You have GNOME, KDE, and Sway right now basically, and more will come later (I hear LXQT may be in the works?). I guess this ends up being the least harmful way to reduce fragmentation. We may not have the DOZENS of tiling WMs we had on X, but we'll have Sway and probably others. We'll also have our usual DEs. It's fragmentation-reduction without it getting to the point of the "GNOME as the only Linux GUI" conspiracy.
>I don't get screen tearing with X out of the box.
What DE? I hear it's pretty noticeable on XFCE if you don't use compton.
>I have no opinion on this.
Pretty much same, although my general attitude towards it is positive. It sounds like they have admirable goals.
>If you want to release a system general release of your application just release a tar of the source with compile instructions.
Not brainlet-friendly enough. Unless compiling can be made into a double click, that's not gonna happen.
>For switching to flatpack / snappies your distro essentially has to support another package manger. Switching to flatpack / snappies is the equivalent to saying that we would only need to create 1 package if all distributions used the same package manager.
I don't think these will be things that completely replace package managers. these I hear will be secondary options.
>netstat -> ss
I'll look into it
>I don't see how it's EEE in any way.
It's not by itself an EEE scheme but with steam building up on loonix so the software community are going to be overwhelmed by something worse than normalfags (gamers).
Btw can somebody post the pic of the initial community invaded by external people ?
>I do agree it could be a way to more easily get proprietary software though.
It's going to be used outrageously since a lot of repositories won't/can't integrate directly there shit into the distribution, of course there's the exception of manjaro who went full retard already.
You should also try out DragonFly if you want something innovative/new. The design really is something to behold; if there were as many users of it as CorporateBSD, we'd really get somewhere.
Honestly when it comes to innovative and new ideas, as in COMPLETELY revolutionary designs, I look more to microkernel OSes. There's nothing practical still, but with promising projects like Genode/seL4, I'm optimistic. There's also the memes that are Redox and Fuchsia
>Of course not, but it's on the list that shills have, like image previews in the file picker.
Ok, and what's this talk about it being "secure?" I feel old and confused and have no idea what these kids are talking about.
I feel that some arguments are best discarded after the most cursory glance. There is an effort to replace old, tried and true, established code and especially protocols with new, opaque, enormous and ever growing shitware which will be impossible to ever comprehend, see systemd.
I don't need to locate and file new bug reports in order to "prove" to the various shills that Poetteringware isn't secure and is in fact questionable at best. The record stands for itself.
There is an obvious ongoing conspiracy to take away our precious Free software and replace it with newly-developed shitware, and in the future I see new versions of that shitware going to more and more closed models. Even if it doesn't the sheer rate of change in the code precludes any useful checkpoint and audit procedure. If the new giant software like Firefox or systemd is on a more or less rolling release cycle how can it ever be trusted?
Bring back major, yearly or less frequent releases.
DragonFly has a hybrid kernel, and you can also run virtual kernels in userspace. Last I tested it (2015) it outperformed Linux (was using Gentoo), so I believe it has the best performace of any Unix-like OS. HAMMER and HAMMER2 are also really great.
>If the new giant software like Firefox or systemd is on a more or less rolling release cycle how can it ever be trusted
It can't. The conspiracy is much deeper than people think. It's about changing attitudes, not specifically about shit like systemd.
I just find it fascinating. So much of what we've been used to in GNU/Linux is changing! Perhaps some of these changes aren't the most significant in the world, but they're still kinda cool.
I don't really believe in the whole conspiracy angle.
>take away our precious Free software
>more and more closed models
Systemd, like it or not, is Free Software under a copyleft license.
My personal take is that Poettering is not intentionally a CIAnigger. He's just a pajeet/womyn-tier developer in charge of something he should never have been allowed to be in charge of. that's just my theory though. Perhaps there is a conspiracy, but I'm not convinced.
Such is the nature of Linux. "GNU/Linux" is an illusion. At any point someone motivated enough could show up and completely replace the typical Linux user space with completely custom software. It could even be proprietary software. It doesn't have to be POSIX compliant either.
If you don't like it, the answer is to make your own Linux distribution. Of course, that's too hard for 99% of people here.
>I don't really believe in the whole conspiracy angle.
>My personal take is that Poettering is not intentionally a CIAnigger.
I miss being a naive kid, hopeful and trusting of the world. Your post makes me very nostalgic.
the (((reasons))) are that there are like 3 WMs for it. Once someone writes a library that people latch on to it will happen overnight. But wayland had a mis-step and decided to not write that library themselves.
>GNU isn't Unix
>old Linux isn't Minix
>GNU is being deprecated by systemd
>systemd+Linux is moving in a direction that looks like they're going to end up close to a hybrid of Win32+MacOS
>Plan9 dies alone
Where will existing GNU users migrate to, HURD, BSD, Solaris?
>Where will existing GNU users migrate to, HURD, BSD, Solaris?
GNU/Linux-Libre I suppose
>>GNU is being deprecated by systemd
I swear to god I try to understand you conspiracy faggots but every single time you people fail to make any sense.
Not trying very hard then, because it's not rocket science.
I can't even pretend to understand what you're implying. How is old technology being replaced by new technology a conspiracy or even a controversial prediction.
Yeah, what part of GNU specifically is systemd depreciating?
I will say GNU could be depreciated at some point, but it won't be by systemd. It'll be by replacing GNU's libc with Musl, or the coreutils by some alternative. Which I guess may be a good thing if you're highly autistic about strict standards-compliance.
>it's not rocket science
Apparently it is, for you people. You don't even know what you're talking about. It's just "systemd" or "poetteringware" with you people. Always a bunch of vague statements that provide approximately zero information or facts.
>Yeah, what part of GNU specifically is systemd depreciating?
Ask the people who think the NSA is behind everything.
>You don't even know what you're talking about. It's just "systemd" or "poetteringware" with you people. Always a bunch of vague statements that provide approximately zero information or facts.
I guess that's because it's a much larger topic than systemd specifically. Either you keep up with history and current events and see the patterns in society, or you're a faggot plebbitor like you who gets his worldview from university indoctrination and talks about "fud" on rationalwiki. I could go on about indicators all day and you'd never see it, just like a boomer who believes that 911 was some arabs with boxcutters.
>I could go on about indicators all day
"""""indicators""""" aren't proof. Show proof.
>I could go on about indicators all day and you'd never see it
Sure buddy. Sure.
Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. Try it out. Faggot.
>Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. Try it out. Faggot.
absolute fucking gibberish
Perhaps one could destroy systemd by starting a new init system and advertising it as "the newer ,more modern ,reliable replacement to systemd" while pretty much remaking runit or openrc(plus making a optional new method to change daemon status using gui to make it "attractive" to new users).
This would destroy the reddit arguments.
Fat chance. You'd need something that actually competes in moron usability to challenge it. That's a tall order seeing how you have to compete with CIA nigger level funding to do so. You have to understand, systemd isn't really a bad piece of software, if your goal is botnet OS (which most people don't care about.)
I was on the newest Mint and did notice serious screen tearing when I watched Youtube videos.
That's why I mentioned it when talking about AppImage.
>Not brainlet-friendly enough.
Which is why distributions create packages for them. Alternatively the developer of the application could create the packages.
<What if the developers are too lazy to create packages
Then they are too lazy to create a snappy, flatpack, or appimage package too which makes your point moot.
>completely replace package managers
No. They ARE package managers. It's this dumb trend where modern systems (especially for developers) have 10 different package managers managing the system all at one time.
>I'll look into it
It's used very similarly. You should easily be able to use it with just prior knowledge of netstat.
Actually there is a few more, like atleast five or six last I checked. Orbital/rust OS being one of them.
Let's try the indicators. Corperations exist to make money. (((Jewgle))) amongst other corperations owned by fake-jews are now major contributers to the linux kernel. (((Redhat/CIA))), which is also owned by the CIA, is the major and sometimes sole contributer to almost all major GNU software now. Don't believe me? Check out the committers for GDB, GCC, GLIBC, iproute2, GTK2/3, GIMP, DBUS, XORG, and etc that I can't think of off the top of my head. Now realise a license like GPL or the cuck MIT can be changed at the owner's whim. Say redhat/CIA or jewgle were the only ones contributing to a software, they could fork the code and change the license from that point on and refuse to provide updates and sue anyone who did provide updates. This would be in line with their objective as a corperation, make the software closed source/different license and then charge people for it.
SystemD is a poor quality, CIA created, and shit tier RC system with bugs throughout the implementation. It requires many things people may not need such as: a dns resolver, a dhcp resolver, a mandatory and only type able to be used with it logger. These are just the things I can name off the top of my head. The DNS resolver for example, had a remote execution code bug recently that affected every systemD distrobution. SystemD has been pushed upon all modern distros so that as normies switch to it they feel like they are using windows again. Which means feeling insecure and being botnet on a easy use GUI. Take ubuntu for example, they used to be an ok GNOME based distro. Now they are unironically connecting to and advertising (((amazon))) just from their search results IN THE OS ITSELF.
This poster >>898370 is correct. On a huge scale it is slowly being undertaken to turn linux into windows lite for normies. That way you can have your jewgle botnet via DRM hardware devices and yet some FOSS for the autists like us. This requires changing the attitudes of the user base and controlling key software where this can be implemented. Such as the kernel, the general c library, and the display server and hardware.
>but anon if you don't like redhat/CIA possibly changing their license on GPL'd software just fork it
But you can't, once the license is changed you can only ever use old versions. If you contributed code to a forked/new version still under GPL redhat/CIA could sue you. This is just one example
>Perhaps one could destroy systemd by starting a new init system and advertising it as "the newer ,more modern ,reliable replacement to systemd" while pretty much remaking runit or openrc(plus making a optional new method to change daemon status using gui to make it "attractive" to new users).
One problem, runit, the init system, already tried that years ago. The CIA has too much funding for propaganda and too many people infiltrating or having already infiltrated FOSS organizations like for implementing systemD and such crap. Also this >>898423
NSA is the alphabet agency who works with RedHat and their reasons aren't quite as nefarious as you think they are. The US military and other government agencies use RHEL for their Linux distro of choice. If you check out CentOS, all of those government profiles for SELinux are right there for easy redistribution. The NSA has security guidelines for OSX and Windows as well. If you're afraid of SELinux and SystemD, don't use them. The nice thing about open source is you have a choice, whether you think you do or not.
Problem is that systemd since long isn't just an init system but also swallowed like half of system services and other stuff. It's kinda a trapdoor mechanism (possibly cleverly devised that way), once a distro goes systemd and stays with it for some time, leaving it seems extremely unlikely, because you'd had to worry not only about replacing the init system, but also everything else that was relegated to systemd. Can you name a single distro which dropped systemd after choosing it as the default or only """init""" system?
>redhat = nsa
Wait a second. I thought that because of the website creator for redhat, NeuStar, Inc located in virginia near the CIA headquaters, that they were controlled by the CIA. Care to give a explanation of how you came to the conclusion they are owned by the NSA? I thought the NSA and others switched from SELINUX to GRsecurity a long time ago.
>choice between (((lennitware))), muslc, and cuck license
>can be changed at the owner's whim
How many of those projects require contributors to sign over their copyright to someone else? To change the license you need to get approval from everyone who has contributed / scrap their contributions.
>Sorry you feel that way. I think a lot of these changes are pretty interesting.
No, I mean you don't have to follow them. They haven't eclipsed Linux. I mean I'm ignoring KDE and Gnome for so many years, and even GTK3, and Wayland (don't know what the fuck that even is), and obviously systemd, and I'm doing fine...
They don't have to change the license to do what you're talking about. They're already doing it. The license is irrelevant, and they will probably just keep it GPL to keep up the pretense that somehow Linux is different.
Even people here fall for that trick, yourself included (given how you're spouting about "cuck license"). In reality, the only way for individuals to have any level of control over their software is to keep that software simple enough you don't need huge corporations to maintain it. RMS's theory of "you can just hire a programmer" isn't good enough. The software has to be kept simple. Terry Davis is way, way more advanced and intelligent than RMS ever was, because he realized this a long time ago.
I'll give it a go, anon.
The only thing I have with wayland is if the vsync is going to be forced or not.
>.gif (3.99 MB)
(You) need to go back
>Wayland is cancer of its own type and breaks everything. I've seen no proof that it's pozzed botnet shitware but I am betting we will find out it is.
Could not be worse than X where any application can grab any other application's window, yeah?
>If you contributed code to a forked/new version still under GPL redhat/CIA could sue you
>In reality, the only way for individuals to have any level of control over their software is to keep that software simple enough you don't need huge corporations to maintain it.
You know what? It's true but it first needs to be written in a simpler language then. By simple I mean a language which is designed to not be a footgun and which makes it harder to conceal exploitable bugs.
Otherwise, the amount of code that can be realistically reviewed for all that shit is too low to be actually useful, except for really simple problems.
…forgot to add: a good example of such language is Zig.
Easy to learn, easy to use, avoids most of the most dreaded pitfalls of C, can be used for everything that "required" C.
Not overly complicated unlike Rust and doesn't take safety to an extreme (which is somewhat futile as they still need unsafe blocks).
>What do you think of these changes?
Can't wait for flatpaks, appimages and Wayland.
Oh shit wtf is this?
>plus making a optional new method to change daemon status using gui to make it "attractive" to new users
That would be nice. I mean, Windows users change that kinda shit using group policy or registry or whatever the fuck they use. Why not have a GUI frontend to service management on GNU/Linux? It wouldn't even have to be a systemd frontend, as I imagine you could also make one for OpenRC.
As far as getting rid of systemd, I'll go with my above answer. I think a server distro that uses a different init will have to rise up into popularity. Whether that's Alpine or something else remains to be seen.
Was it on XFCE? I hear that's where it's particularly awful for some people.
>Which is why distributions create packages for them
You're missing the point.
Let's say it's some software that for whatever reason isn't in the repos. Let's pay attention to the perspective of the dev. He can either create a package for:
as there may be users of any of those distros who may wish to use his software.
He could just make one package, using a distro-independent format.
This also works because the way most people expect to get software is by going to the internet and googling the software to find an executable installer. I would imagine these new tools would help facilitate this in a distro-independent way.
adding to confusion is the fact that in the context of Linux, DRM also means Direct Rendering Manager or something.
you can't simply search commits by keywords…
I mean, do you have any specific proofs for DRM in Linux?
>This also works because the way most people expect to get software is by going to the internet and googling the software to find an executable installer. I would imagine these new tools would help facilitate this in a distro-independent way.
You mean windowsfags? Gslapt and repos are so much more convenient. Also, rpm2tgz and deb2tgz make distros irrelevant.
This whole thread smells of a shill.
afaik it has to do with HDCP, as well as some special DRM Netflix uses. I'm sure someone else has the details.
Yeah I don't buy the whole "NSA does business with RedHat therefore RedHat is NSA spyware" That'd be like if the NSA ordered a bunch of Pizzas for the office from Papa Johns, all of a sudden Papa Johns is now botnet.
>But you can't, once the license is changed you can only ever use old versions. If you contributed code to a forked/new version still under GPL redhat/CIA could sue you.
They'd have absolutely no legal ground to stand on. If they did, Grsecurity would have sued the fuck out of Alpine already for including their unofficial Grsec patches.
>This whole thread smells of a shill.
not at all. I use Void Linux (runit), and personally have no issues using a package manager or compiling.
However, not everyone is like you and I.
>Gslapt and repos are so much more convenient.
Until they don't have something Random person #3813240 needs/wants.
>Also, rpm2tgz and deb2tgz make distros irrelevant.
Looked em up. So they convert an RPM/Deb package into a slackware package? interesting
>Yeah I don't buy the whole "NSA does business with RedHat therefore RedHat is NSA spyware"
You also can't review or modify code that is hidden from you by being BSD/proprietary no matter how simple it is, he is just a corporate shill trying to move people away from the GPL.
>that is hidden from you by being BSD
how exactly BSD license hides code?
(I am all for GPL but this part reads like bullshit)
The support for HDCP was also recently mainlined by Google, but is ostensibly unrelated.
>>This also works because the way most people expect to get software is by going to the internet and googling the software to find an executable installer. I would imagine these new tools would help facilitate this in a distro-independent way.
Hello grandpa. People get their from app stores now, which is how these will be mostly distributed. But those frontends can be made for classic package managers too.
>Code is GPL
>proprietary software companies can't EEE it or else they can get sued
>the code, and all contributions remain fully open and free
>Code is BSD
>proprietary software company (like, say, sony) can incorporate the code into their products without contributing back
>the original BSD-licensed code is still around, but the proprietary extensions are unethically hidden from the user.
>yet you can not get a single line of orbisos code
Lets be realistic it's obviously going to be abused since normally the only way for normies to get was via the paquet manager, do you think GNU/linux will survive the exact same methodology of installation that a windows operating system as ?
And inb4 you get too
>they just have to verify the gpg signature
Don't bullshit me on that users have now knowledge of anything if they tried they wouldn't even be capable to find the source website or depot of where the software came from.
>how exactly BSD license hides code?
The BSD doesn't legally oblige the company to share the source code when a BINARY is distributed.
>Git clone BSD source code
>Make modifications for X product/service
>compile it into a binary
>put it in your product/service
>sell the product/service to customers
>don't share the source because the license doesn't ask you to comply with it
>your customers can't have ownership the software
Another example but with a compiler:
>Git clone GPL source code
>Make modifications for X product/service
>compile it into a binary with a permissive licensed compiler that you've modified
>put it in your product/service
>sell the product/service to customers
>don't share the modified compiler because the license doesn't ask you to comply with it
>your customers own the software but they don't have access to the tools to change it
Either the software is libre or not, either the whole toolchain is libre or not.
>Say redhat/CIA or jewgle were the only ones contributing to a software, they could fork the code and change the license from that point on
>Now realise a license like GPL or the cuck MIT can be changed at the owner's whim.
Technically, only future versions are affected by this. The truth though is the license doesn't actually matter for 99% of developers. It only matters to corporate lawyers. Some guy violates your license, what are you going to do? Spend millions on lawyers and waste years of your life suing him? Hilarious.
Even if you're willing to do it, people's governments might not be. Russian and chinese folks violate the GPL every single day and are utterly unaccountable for it.
Really, you're all better off dropping all pretenses and just throwing the code out there. Stop lying to yourself, you're not gonna sue anybody. Last time I came in contact with this GPL drama was in the retroarch/libretro emulation community. You wouldn't believe the amount of impotent nerd rage generated by licenses violators. They did absolutely nothing about it, as expected.
>On a huge scale it is slowly being undertaken to turn linux into windows lite for normies.
You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there maintaining your own custom distro with the exact software you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about freedom and Unix way or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual developers who are trying to turn Linux into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how the conspiracy is taking away all that free work you were enjoying.
There is nothing wrong with this. The problem is how the hardware manufacturers own the keys that sign software. Don't buy toys that refuse to give you control of your own machine.
W.r.t. Linux, the legal battle is already lost as it didn't switch to a license that prevents tivoization.
So yeah, all we can is boycott hardware which doesn't respect freedom.
Of course not. Linus is not a nutjob like RMS. Tivoized hardware are toys, the kernel is much bigger than that. Remember that the kernel received lots of contributions from Tivo developers, so we're all better off. When Tivo is gone and forgotten, the kernel will live on.
GPL requires you also release the tools needed to build the program.
>u don maek something, so u can't complain when hard werkn CIA niggers take over
Yes, that's exactly how it is. You're bitching about the people who are "in control" of Linux, an operating system whose user space can be completely customized. Can't you see how pathetic that is?
Try not being a pathetic luser in your next life. Maybe then you'll be able to make your poettering-free system a reality. Until then, all you're good for is swallowing whatever shit gets pushed down your throat by the powers that are driving Linux forward.
>GPL requires you also release the tools needed to build the program.
That's good but I don't remember that can you point out the line in the license please ?
>You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there running your own political party with the exact platform you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about politics or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual politicians who are trying to turn society into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how the conspiracy is taking away all that free work you were enjoying.
>You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there flipping burgers with the exact ingredients you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about burgers or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual burger flippers who are trying to turn fast food into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how the conspiracy is taking away all that free work you were enjoying.
>You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there sucking dick with the exact dimensions you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about faggotry or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual homosexuals who are trying to turn society into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how the conspiracy is taking away all that free work you were enjoying.
You're not helping your case.
Technology isn't like politics at all. You can just fork a repository, you don't need people's votes or approval to do it. It's as if you could suddenly make your own country if you disagree with the laws of your motherland, and if people like yours better they will move to it.
You people seem to be under the impression that this is a democracy. In fact, it's a dictatorship with hackers as the rulers. Lusers like you don't matter at all. I blame RMS and his endless politicization of technology for nutjobs like yourself.
Nah. You're the normie, kid. If you weren't, you'd be out there forking repositories with the exact software you want. But it's too hard, isn't it? You only care about hackers as rulers or whatever if it comes nicely packaged, pre-chewed for your enjoyment, maintained by the tireless unpaid work of actual hackers who are trying to turn software into something better. So instead of doing something, all you do is bitch about how casual shitposters are taking away something or another.
>this person has over 50 conveniently-numbered brainlet memes
Pff, I'm posting from the beginning of my directory.
It's what his discourse has been reduced to.
You reduced me to it with your exceptional retardedness and faggotry. I blame you.
Avatarfagging breaks the rules, report enough and he'll be banned.
I just told you the truth. The fact is you're incapable of coming up with anything better than whatever Poettering came up with. All you can do is complain like a luser. I'm not sure about other people here, but it really gets annoying seeing children complain every day instead of actually doing something.
Fucking children talking to me about the "Unix way" when they can't even hack... Hilarious.This isn't your safe space, child. Deal with it.
>I'm so annoyed seeing children complain instead of doing something... I'll just have to complain about it!
>can't even hack
Where do you even come from? Are you a time traveling irc scriptkiddy from 1995?
>can't even poettering
I'll readily admit that. I don't have millions of CIA nigger dollars to burn on my projects.
Are you from the 80s? Why do you resist change, grandpa?
>I don't have millions of CIA nigger dollars to burn on my projects.
RMS didn't, either. Unlike you, he was a true hacker.
>Are you from the 80s? Why do you resist change, grandpa?
Because you kids and your newfangled change is shit. Shit I tells you.
>a true hacker.
There's already several simpler (=better) alternatives to potteryware, but hardly any distros use them. They're just there for decorating the package manager database, basically. Few users are going to change from the default, so there you go.
I'm calling it right now. He's going to tell you to make your own distro and get it as popular as the mainstream ones otherwise you're a "luser"
<implement a "much needed new and """FAST""" (because everyone reboots their sytems dozens times a day, don't we) init system", then bait-n-switch and have it subsume one system component after another (making dependency of your software become as firm as the roots of a tree), making use of the
<coerce (by means of affiliation influence, politics and other trickery) the main upstream distros like Fedora, Debian, Suse, and Arch to use your software (with forks and derivates obviously following suit), making use of the
>"lo and behold, it's all because our software is CLEARLY SUPERIOR to anything else based on purely TECHNICAL MERITS, kthxbai"
Whew lad, how ingenious indeed
>several simpler (=better) alternatives to potteryware, but hardly any distros use them
See >>898825. Because of the domino effect, if your distro is a derivate of a major distro that adopted systemd you mostly left with not much choice, and because of the trapdoor effect once you go systemd there's very little chance of ever going back.
What's wrong? Changing the defaults is too much work for you? I guess it's a hard life, having to actually understand and maintain your systems and everything and not just run some package manager commands to update everything automatically. So how much do you really believe in this anti-systemd crap? Apparently, not enough.
The fact is systemd makes service management much easier. It's easier for users, but it's much, much easier for distribution maintainers than whatever shell scripting junk came before, I don't even care to remember. That's the actual reason they switched to systemd. Nobody wants to put in even one second of work for you thankless faggots if it can be avoided.
Go back to SysV init or whatever it was, then. You're all such die-hard Unix wizards, right? I bet you could easily customize your installs so that they all work exactly the way you want them to. Right? Isn't that the whole point of installing Arch? So you can learn how Linux works?
Flatpak seems to be winning against Snap atm, but can they auto-update? Snap seems to be the most newbie friendly option atm.
What's wrong with downloading the source and compiling it yourself?
Fuck this newb friendly Pajeet shit.
$ flatpak update from the CLI and Gnome Software handles updates automatically.
>What's wrong with downloading the source and compiling it yourself?
>Fuck this newb friendly Pajeet shit.
Compiling it yourself does not support automatic updates.
>make install clean
It's like 2 commands dude
>expecting these lusers to compile software
Even with autoconf holding their hands and making it a literal oneliner it's still too hard for them. Basically, if it's not packaged then it might as well not exist.
>Even with autoconf holding their hands and making it a literal oneliner it's still too hard for them. Basically, if it's not packaged then it might as well not exist.
Pretty much this. I have no issue with compiling and shit because I've been using GNU/Linux for a while now and don't have a phobia of command-lines. However, let's look at how software is installed on mainstream OSes.
On windows, you browse to the dev's website, download the .exe file for the program, and double click on it. From there you go through the installation wizard and you're done.
On macOS, you browse to the dev's website, download the .dmg file for the program, and double click on it. From there you see it tell you to drag the little program icon to your applications folder so you do that, and you're done. There's also an app store for some things.
On Android, typically you get your software from the app store (repository with a clean GUI), but if you want something outside of that, you go to the dev's website, download the .apk file for the program, and tap on it. From there, you go through some prompts, and you're done.
It's more work than simply updating the thing with git and recompiling. Also most people stick to their repos anyway and never compile stuff. Very few users have a ~/bin/ at all.
Yes? What's your point?
I noticed this shit changed when i decided to install manjaro after using gentoo for the longest time.
It confused the shit out of me.
Wayland is kinda like x
What They might be refering to is some of the concept window managers having dependencies on systemd.
Wayland in itself is just a protocal that can be easily implemented without any calls to systemd
Gee wee, can't wait to have to manually download, install and update every single piece of software like I had to do on Windows, while also having to navigate to install folder and double click the icon to launch it because that shit doesn't system-installs so you can't start it from the menu nor command line.
Also immense bloat because every distribution carries its own libraries. Remember how fun it is to install directx 10 million times? That cancer will now also be on Linux.
I mean fuck me, at this rate Apple will be the only viable choice.
Yeah you're right.
The real problem is binary compatibility. Linux kernel hackers go to extreme lengths to maintain it, so when you upgrade kernel things just work. Distribution maintainers and even those behind key libraries such as glibc are monkeys, I'd be surprised if they cared at all about this. You can run any binary on any Linux, but you cannot upgrade glibc without breaking everything.
Is Flatpak tied to GNOME?
No. While Flatpak has been developed by people with a long involvement in the GNOME community it is not tied to any desktop. In fact, it was designed with the explicit goal of allowing it to build applications using any library stack or programming language an application author might want.
Is Flatpak tied to Fedora?
No. In fact, Flatpak and even Flathub are enabled by default on Endless OS and Linux Mint. The people developing Flatpak have a long history in contributing to and building Linux distributions like Debian, Fedora, and others, and solving the problems that arise when shipping applications for these platforms. Flatpak was built to be distribution agnostic and allow deployment on any Linux operating system out there.
Is Flatpak tied to Linux?
Yes. We are explicitly using many features of the linux kernel (bind mounts, namespaces, seccomp, etc) to create the sandbox that Flatpak apps are running in. It may be possible to use equivalent technologies on other kernels, but that would be a non-trivial amount of work, and we don't consider this one of our priorities.
Is Flatpak tied to systemd?
No. Versions of flatpak before 0.6.10 relied on systemd for cgroups setup, but this is no longer required.
Is Flatpak the same as xdg-app?
Yes, while xdg-app was a fine name to use during development we wanted something with wider appeal and more sparkle to it than xdg-app could provide. So as part of formally launching Flatpak as ready for use we decided to pick a more accessible and fun name.
This is why versions exist.
What not guaranteed? If your program subscribes to a specific version of some package, it will always be present, upgrade or not. Simply on account of this version of the package being in dependency list.
Anyway one of the reasons I don't use Windows is that I don't have to manually do the work the package manager does automatically. If that's gone I'll just go back to Windows because at that point there would be no fucking difference.
The program also has to specify version, not just use it's base name which always refers to the latest. Now stop being obtuse and stop shilling for Windows-isms because everything about Windows is cancer and I don't want it to spread to other OSes.
>Changing the defaults is too much work for you? I guess it's a hard life, having to actually understand and maintain your systems and everything
Changing the defaults isn't understanding the system and you pretending like it is just shows how dishonest you are. No one has a good overview of systemd except the CIA nigger committee that runs the project. If only they had made it modular and focused on as little dependencies as possible, then no one would complain, something of value would have been added to the ecosphere and everything would have been peaches. But then ciahat wouldn't be able to take over either, now would they?
>but it's their project they can do what they want XD
This attitude, born out of the idea that companies aren't accountable to society for what they do, is slowly ruining the world. But yes, they can do what they want and that's what they do it. The people who want to complain about it can do that too. I'm going to complain when Google does evil shit and your philosophical stance of "just make ur own google man XDDD" is juvenile and retarded.
>Remember that the kernel received lots of contributions from Tivo developers
Which are worthwhile because …?
What's the problem, exactly? When I started with Slackware (1995), that was the standard way to install software that wasn't included in one of the distro package sets. I was new to Unix, but this was fine as it didn't require any kind of deep knowledge. If you could get around in the shell, you could do this!
So what's your argument? That you can manage your packages manually, like in shit OSes that don't have a package manager? Is lacking it supposed to be a good thing?
>No one has a good overview of systemd except the CIA nigger committee that runs the project.
Nah, it's just you. There are lots of people out there who actually read manuals and source code, and are familiar with Linux systems programming. If you don't want to be one of those people, that's your problem. Just stop shitposting sbout stuff you don't understand.
>hurrr I AM going to complain XD
Direct your energy towards something constructive, instead. The problem with you people is you barely even understand the program you hate so much. You're all like the retards who keep reinventing make without bothering to understand it.
They fixed problems in the kernel and everyone benefitted from the improvements. How hard is this to understand?
It's not a problem. These conspiracy babbys can't even run configure scripts and make on the software they want to use. If some distro adopted a system they don't like, it's pretty much over for them.
>Mainstream Distributions for normies are changing drastically
As long as Gentoo and Slackware (and Linux-libre) are around, there isn't much to worry about.
>Nah, it's just you. There are lots of people out there who actually read manuals and source code, and are familiar with Linux systems programming. If you don't want to be one of those people, that's your problem. Just stop shitposting sbout stuff you don't understand.
No u, CIA.
Gentoo has become not much beyond a meme. Slackware has become a "ghost from the past" distro which still lingers on but nobody really knows for how much longer (while OpenBSD supposedly could survive without Theo, Slackware almost certainly won't without Pat). Besides Pat claimed years ago that adopting systemd is a possibility in the future should it become necessary one way or another.
>you must be a kernel hacker to look at Poettering's bug log and suspect he's either incompetent or glowing in the dark
Even if you're a kernel hacker with dozens of high-profile commits do you have the time to audit systemd? It's over a million lines of code now. By the time you finished, even if you were a genius you'd have been at it for years.
You don't even have to be a conspiracy theorist, just open the damn bug log and look at the many critical vulnerabilities. I don't know where you shills come from but you need some new rhetoric, yours is very stale and worn. You're not fooling anybody, rather you're making people more suspicious.
It'd be a better plan overall to just leave threads like this alone, but the systemd criticism detector sets off the red light in your hamster cage and you get on your wheel and run run run like a good little rodent. Who's a good little rodent? YOU'RE a good little rodent!
>Gentoo has become not much beyond a meme.
Memes or not, it ships with OpenRC and allows much more flexibility and personalization than any other distro.
Has good documentation and an IRC channel that works, as it's surrounded by competent people.
Not sure what you're seeking for beyond that.
>it's just a million lines of CIA spaghetti XD
>every average linux user takes a couple of months off from work to go through that
>it's just you who don't do that
Fug off. You haven't read the systemd source code, I haven't read it. No one has read it.
>>hurrr I AM going to complain XD
>Direct your energy towards something constructive, instead.
Complaining about systemd is constructive. It's the reason why everyone tolerates it, but are also very skeptical of it. As they should be. Your constant complaining about people complaining however, your CIA nigger meta-complaining, has very little going for it.
Saying systemd is shit is the same as:
The Tiananmen Square protestors were justified.
Muhammad is a faggot that loved to fuck pigs before eating them.
God hates fags.
Hitler did nothing wrong.
That is to say, keep doing it.
Only faggots can't comprehend a world without systemd.
That's why they keep shilling it though. They use the same arguments every time, they ask why you, the shitposter they take umbrage with, haven't coded a replacement or pretend they don't know that it has taken over functions from other perfectly decent init systems, they will call you a brainlet and make references to systems theory, which in my view systemd barely relates to.
I think that the systemd shills like most shills blunder in a bit too hard and often. But there are Wayland shills now, we had our Pulse Audio shills for the longest time, before that we had Mono shills, we have Rust shills, anti-old-Thinkpad shills, shills who instantly derail threads about Intel's difficulties as of late, etc. It's the same exact type of shit that they do on Usenet as well. Many of the existing groups with traffic are just shills in flamewars with each other. It's well poisoning and it should be considered a crime, and the punishment is a lifetime ban from the Internet.
It doesn't take anything over. You are perfectly welcome to use your own functions for your own system.
>it doesn't take anything over
>an init system that is rapidly becoming an OS isn't taking over
It's trying to take over everything anon.
And that's better than slapt-get (package name) how?
Well, TBH Pulseaudio isn't that bad. For the longest time I couldn't get ALSA to send audio output through my USB soundcard instead of the in-built one, but Pulseaudio just did it. So fix ALSA, and maybe pulse will go away.
>On Android, typically you get your software from the app store (repository with a clean GUI)
no, you get shit that runs in a java vm that comes pre-installed with the operating system. you can install the roms not the emulator. being able to get actual software on an android requires all kinds of badgoy things that 99.9% of the time equate to using an exploit to bypass the locked down system.
(((they))) want more than anything to do this with PC hardware.
that sounds like your usb soundcard's problem, or your lack of configuration.
alsa supports usb sound cards.
Maybe (just maybe) we had something that worked *perfectly* before ALSA... Wait; No, that can't possibly be right.
Not at all. It's doing its own thing its own way. You are very welcome to do other things a different way. The reason why you don't is because you're nothing but a shitposter with a strong but undeserved sense of entitlement. You do nothing but whinge about Redhat and their systemd. You're free to whinge but that does nothing practical by itself.
No, I did all the .asoundrc and other "solutions" provided on the internet. Didn't work, pulse did.
oy vey you should be grateful for everything systemd gives you and stop complaining
Now that's a strawman, not an argument.
>Not at all. It's doing its own thing its own way. You are very welcome to do other things a different way. The reason why you don't is because you're nothing but a shitposter with a strong but undeserved sense of entitlement. You do nothing but whinge about Redhat and their systemd. You're free to whinge but that does nothing practical by itself.
You fuckers are like a broken record. Like with everything else in life it's allowed to have an opinion of something and voice it even if you're not making it. I bet you sit around and fret about art critics as well down there in Langley.
>hurrrrrrrrrr, y u have opinion on davinci's painting, just go out there and be davinci yourself you luser non-hacker duururrrrrrr
You also sound like a broken record. You have the power to change your software. This power is called software freedom. It's very simple that you refuse to use that freedom to write the software you want. Instead of writing that software, all you do is spend your time bitching about Redhat and the fact that they aren't working to your entitlement. I have all the respect for people who do something about this, groups like Gentoo, and BSD systems, and Devuan spend their time writing software they want to see. Maybe they bitch 24 hours a day but they also do real work.
0.04 posts per hour telling you how retarded you are is bitching "24 hours a day?" No one buys your strawman faggotry. And no one gives two shits about respect from you CIA niggers.
And no, if you flip through this thread you'll see a lot of legitimate points Anons make about why they're skeptical of systemd. Your arguments boil down to 1. NO COMPLAIN PLX and 2. it just werks XD
Since 1 is completely retarded all you have is 2. That's the same argument macfags use. Why don't we all just get macs? I bet you'd love that, CIA nigger.
Now that is a strawman. If you follow the context, I never assert any of those two points. I'm very happy for you to be skeptical of systemd's purpose and implmentation. What I actually argue is the claim that systemd is taking over the functions of other init system and thatt this claim is false. Systemd does not take over anything. This is a fact.
Just like google didn't take over search engines. It's a free market. After all, everyone is free to make their own google if they're not satisfied. XD
That's exactly how freedom works. Google hasn't taken over any other search engine, they built their own without taking over other search engines.
You don't even need to code a replacement. If you want to go back to the ancient shell script-based system, what's stopping you? Nothing but your own incompetence. The core fact of the matter is you can put whatever you want on top of Linux. This is what let people replace old init with systemd in the first place. So why don't you?
You need to treat your schizophrenia, kiddo.
>hurrr CIA nigger
Doctors should intern your asses in a psychiatry ward. It's OK, nobody chooses to be mentally ill.
>its the user's fault, even though poetteringware works
Your opinions don't matter. They're noise. Do you even read your own posts? Take your meds then read them. Loss of critical thinking is a psychiatric symptom.
The only way you can solve your "lmao everyone uses systemd now the world is doomed" problem is by making something much, much better. And quite frankly, systemd has set the bar extremely high in terms of features.
It's so tiresome arguing with these armchair politicians. Let me give you the raw truth:
>everybody, user and maintainer alike, uses systemd because it makes their life easier
>nobody cares who's behind it
If you don't like the fact people are using systemd and are happy with it, then make something better. Otherwise nobody gives a single fuck what you have to say. Your non-technical discourse of fearmongering is quite simply hilarious.
Plenty of people did. The fact is google presents the user with an extremely biased and also censored search results.
please don't reply to this insane guy anymore
don't let him ruin the thread
>The fact is google presents the user with an extremely biased and also censored search results.
Stop sitting around on your ass complaining about google all day you luser. If you don't like it, make a better billion dollar CIA nigger blackops congleromate yourself. Git gud, luser.
Nobody is forcing you to use Google. It is you yourself who choses to use it. If you don't like what Google does, the sensible way is to stop using Google.
>nothing can affect you indirectly
Guess what, the brainwashing of my fellow Europeans to exterminate them does affect me.
I don't use Google.
You should. It just werks.
Yeah, why don't the peasants just eat cake?
I'd eat her cake.
I don't know about that, looks like it could have been a libreboot dev to me.
>Who cares? Just fucking stick to ifconfig and avoid the redhat/CIA iproute2 suit.
>wait, is iproute2 poetteringware? Does it have telemetry? I'll avoid a kneejerk reaction until I have some proof of it being compromised.
still waiting for proof
It's like you still live in 2002 or something before even normalfags figured out intelligence agencies run the show. Boomer grandmothers have better a better grasp on reality than you.
There is no safe space nor bastion of freedom when the entire ecosystem of anything is bound by the botnet: NSA.
The pros? All those ilerminaty fuckers will be in jail soon.
The cons? A police state will emerge.
Mark my words my fellow cyberphreaker, cyberhackers, and trunkpunks.
Chaos awaits, and fuck systemd.
There's nothing wrong with iproute2. Unlike the old ifconfig, it's built with Linux in mind and uses it to the fullest extent. Systemd does the same thing, it uses features such as cgroups.
I don't even know C, nor do I have the time. Just point me to the file and line number.
Where do NixOS and GuixSD fit into this? They both in my opinion solved alot of flaws common distributions have with packaging and reliability, among other things.
Plenty of people used facebook, real happy with facebook. Because facebook superior choice, else why so many use it?
Then one day they all got fucked good. All data stolen.
I never had facebook, or systemd. I'm happy lots of people did, because it makes it much easier for me to avoid nasty cianiggers when the bar is set so low.
Facebook isn't open source, retard. Systemd doesn't come with with a ToS that requires you to sell your soul to the jew. Goddamn, the more posts you make, the more outlandish your posts become.
It's an analogy, not something to be parsed literally you sperg.
You're one dense, lying motherfucker. I never said it's open source. I was only addressing your sorry excuse for an argument "lots of peoples use is so it's all good" by showing how retarded it sounds.
But you're too retarded to get it, you'll probably just keep spamming this thread with the same shit about how something's good because it's popular.
You're confusing the word free to mean no payment. Free Software deals with software that allows you to use a program how you want.
Most commercial software is designed to put money into companies and deny control for the end user with DRM which handcuffs them.
>Where do NixOS and GuixSD fit into this? They both in my opinion solved alot of flaws common distributions have with packaging and reliability, among other things.
I'd use GuixSD if it was stable. I don't care for NixOS. The Shepherd init and the guix package manager sound good in principle for easy package management and easier verifiability.
Where? I agree with you.
Guix also makes flatpak and snap obsolete, while the former tries to somewhat reduce duplication Guix eliminates it. But I don't think such a sane solution is going to become popular.
I already switched away from using systemd and pulseaudio. It was very easy and I have a more stable system than people who use those pieces of bloatware.
Redhat is pozzed up with shills and spooks.
>Instead of writing that software
Why would a person rewrite init? It's already been done over and over, there are tons of alternatives to systemd which do a better job using fewer resources.
You're trying to shift the goalposts again. The point is systemd is cancer and there are plenty of stable, tested alternatives available.
It's wrong and you're a moron. I'm not performing mental gymnastics to convince myself of your schizophrenic worldview.
>plenty of people did
By that, I meant "plenty of people came up with their own search engines", not "plenty of people use other search engines". The point was to highlight the fact they did something about it instead of bitching.
Then use whatever shitty init alternative you like. Make your distro work with it. Fight the uphill battle.
I bet you're one of those faggots who think that if you only "work hard you can be president some day." I thought you clueless boomers died out after the CIA niggers went into overdrive and stopped caring about being inconspicuous, but here you are.
Calling people who have accepted that the power players in this world tries their best for a totalitarian neo-feudal dystopia for "insane schizos" haven't worked for years. Everyone just rolls their eyes at you these days, CIA.
You sure are scamming them cianiggers good anon. All that money they wasted on you, all down the drain.
You're just being lazy and I'm calling you out on it. You have no right to ask other people to work for you if you haven't hired them to work for you. Therefore if you want some programming work, it is your responsibility to hire a programmer to make it happen. You really don't want to do this.
>you can't criticize something you're not creating
And you're being retarded and I'm calling you out on it.
Who says I'm stopping you from critizing Redhat? What I'm saying is that you're acting entitled while you are criticizing and doing nothing.
You are the cianiggers you kike.
Not wanting your CIA nigger cock rammed up your ass isn't "acting entitled."
>this also works because normalfags look for executable installers
But entitlement is cock wants CIA niggers ram.
Nope. I don't even like any modern hardware or software, and try my best to avoid it. Only thing I ever liked is long since abandoned by everyone else who jumped on "progress" botnet. Where "progress" is defined as making shit super complicated and thus effectively removing power away from individuals. Put bluntly: if you can't fully understand and maintain the system all by yourself, it's out of your control.
b-but... it just werks?
>Fight the uphill battle.
Why's it an uphill battle? I mean aside from shills trying to insinuate systemd into everything, there's no reason for it to be an uphill battle.
Nobody is insinuating systemd into everything. There is no uphill battle for non-systemd systems because computing existed before systemd and it will remain feasible even with systemd.
>nobody is insinuating systemd into everything
yes they are
They don't even need to. Most distros didn't explicitly choose systemd, they inherited it from their parent upstream distro and figured that changing something that replaced like half of system services and whatnot is not worth the trouble. Devuan is an example how much effort is needed to provide a systemd-less version of a distro that went systemd.
This flatpak shit will be the death of linux, i swear. Eventually everything will be statically linked unportable garbage like windows
When I need a Windows program, I most often get a portable version that will just werk in any Windows from XP (or even earlier) to 10, I unpack it into a directory (no matter if on local disk or on a portable USB drive) and it just werks.
When I need a Linux program, I can only hope that the particular program is in the <insert distro here> <insert version here> repository, if not, there's big fucking hoops to jump through already. Even if that is settled, I can't install the program in a self-contained directory, instead it installs itself dispersing its parts all over the place (/usr, /lib, /home, /bin, /etc.) and only after having taken a dump in like half of /'s dirs will it work. At least until I update some dependency which fact is not anticipated by the program, in which case it will randomly continue working (with luck), work with problems/crashes, or shit itself entirely.
> I can't install the program in a self-contained directory
If the project uses autotools, you can just set environmental variables telling it to install into a directory of your choice.
T H I S
Also with Windows programs, at least in my experience, you don't have to worry about dependencies. You can just download the program (whether portable or otherwise), and install it.
Compare that to installing a Linux program in the way all these "lel just compile it" fags suggest.
>'you need randomfuckingshit.h'
>that's not a clearly and directly-named package
>go searching around to find what package has it
>install it; make
>'you need someothershit.h'
>repeat process for a while before you can FINALLY MAKE THE FUCKING PROGRAM AND INSTALL IT!!!
Linux desperately needs a common binary package system. One where you don't need to even think about dependencies and can just grab the actual program you want and install the damn thing.
the only sane alternative for wayland desktop will be LXQt
gnome works like crap and devs don't care
kde has too many deps
it's years in the future anyway
Linux does have a standard binary format. All Linux binaries are ELF files
What is NOT standard is application packaging formats, and desktop environment APIs that really make suit complicated. And dependency hell was a thing on Windows too before the introduction of shit like WinSXS.
GNUfags will never adopt similar centralized interfaces though because they're too autistic to understand the importance of the user experience as a whole.
We have a centralized interface. What you don't understand is the importance of asking friends to help you do difficult processes. We don't care about that because we ask our friends to compile and install free software for us.
Even if it doesn't, you just edit the Makefile and change a variable or three.
This is bullshit, unless the program you're trying to install has no documentation that tells you want libraries/versions it needs.
Winsxs is cancer that can bloat up into dozens of gigabytes seemingly out of nowhere if you do as little as install updates to already existing things (like the OS itself, ironically). XP didn't have this and about the only "dependencies" a program could need was a specific version of .NET or MSVC++ (anyways those runtimes should be installed on any system).
>Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.
for the last fucking time, faggot, heating up metals increases plasticity. I know memes are memes but don't act like a mouth-breathing liberal arts graduate.
>Even if that is settled, I can't install the program in a self-contained directory, instead it installs itself dispersing its parts all over the place (/usr, /lib, /home, /bin, /etc.)
>let's make linux unusable as a multi-user system
>let's hide the files in a trillion application directories instead of having them in one place
install gentoo retard
>GNUfags will never adopt a package manager
>what is Guix
The iproute2 utilities are a front-end to the Linux netlink interface and can do a shit load more than the old net-tools.
Have a read of the Linux Advanced Routing & Traffic Control HOWTO: http://lartc.org/howto/index.html
This howto was made in 2002 and mentions "how to do more with Linux 2.2/2.4 routing." And because ifconfig and friends still work I conclude Pottering was not involved.
There is an insane amount of cool shit you can do with this on your OpenWRT router that you would expect to only be found in expensive Cisco and Juniper hardware.
eg: tc has netem, from the man page:
netem Network Emulator is an enhancement of the Linux traffic control facilities that allow to
add delay, packet loss, duplication and more other characteristics to packets outgoing from
a selected network interface.
AppImage was mentioned by OP and does this
Actually no, they shitpost on ponyfaggotry forums.
OSS is essentially pulseaudio's feature set with better quality/latency of sound and better performance then ALSA and it works across multiple unices. But it was discontinued after it became private software but later was opensourced again. This was mainly to divide the linux community and make shitware audio drivers i.e alsa and pulse.
I didn't say it was compromised yet unlike that other poster. My concerns are that the license will be changed in the future to private software.
Where a company like redhat/CIA would have a blank check to sue the fuck out of anyone who builds better software based off the old code base that is GPL'd.
That's my whole point, if redhat is the only contributer then they can eventually change the codebase enough that only their employees hold copyrightable code. And then the company/CIA can order them to agree to change the license or lose their jobs.
That's their backup plan. But legal recourse is much more neccessary as it deters people from writing alternatives in the first place as a form of mental warfare.
Also what is with all the asshurt from my one post here >>898430 ?
the best package manager on linux is GCC
the best package manager on windows is InstallWizard
>the best package manager on linux is GCC
>statically linked unportable
Lusers shouldn't talk about stuff they don't understand. You people spout retarded shit as fast as a gatling gun fires bullets.
I got your joke, but not that long ago, many programs are just perl scripts and a shit ton of libraries.
This works in Windows because, unlike in Unix, the program's directory is always part of the PATH. So there is such a thing as a program directory that has everything it needs to work and when resolving symbolic references the linker will look there first. It's important because Windows computers aren't managed by professional system administrators who value things such as single points of truth.
You can do the same thing in Linux, but you must ask for it explicitly. Mechanisms such as LD_LIBRARY_PATH let you control the shared library search on a per-program basis. New stuff like flatpak offer this feature, but it's certainly not the only feature; in particular, it takes advantage of relatively new kernel sandboxing mechanisms, which have recently become so powerful they allow you to attain root in your own sandbox (this caused a LOT of security holes, because root-only programs were never properly secured in the first place).
>Linux desperately needs a common binary package system
Linux kernel is exceptionally binary compatible. Breaking user space makes Linus come into your home and murder you in your sleep. This is the reason why the kernel developers are so trustworthy. You can upgrade your kernel at any time, and even the stupid ass mistakes they made in the 2003 will still be supported. If it breaks anything, it's a bug.
People like glibc developers DO NOT act this way. You can't upgrade glibc and expect programs to just work after that. Who knows? They might have fixed some bug people depended on. Glibc developers are lesser developers, like all GNU people they believe you can just fix everything by recompiling from source, obviously favoring free software. If even glibc, the most widely used library in Linux user space today, fails to maintain a stable binary interface... Yeah, there's no way some minor library developer has a snowball's chance in hell.
So now we have things like containers which ship with all the exact versions of libraries your program needs to work, all frozen to the exact version you need.
>GNUfags will never adopt similar centralized interfaces though because they're too autistic to understand the importance of the user experience as a whole.
Look, I hate GNU people as much as the next guy, but what you're saying is wrong. It's not really "autism" or "inability to design a coherent user interface", the truth is they're far more dishonest than they lead people to believe.
The real reason they don't care about binary compatibility is they like giving free software advantages. While Linus Torvalds understands the value of having a old ass binary he compiled in the 90s run completely unmodified on the modern 4.x kernels, GNU people believe you can and should simply recompile everything from source. Because the source is always available and free, right? Well, the company that went out of business won't be able to simply recompile from source, and while Linux itself will be perfectly willing to run said software, GNU faggots effectively conspire to prevent that from happening. It's a strategy. Not only that, brainwashed people don't even recognize that it's happening. Not even the antisemitic retards in this thread realize that it's happening.
These people are mentally ill. In their minds, everything they can justify as "it prevents people from using proprietary software" or "it gives free software advantages" is absolutely OK with them. This is why Linux user space sucks. It's why Arch Linux breaks sometimes when you upgrade to the latest packages. This is why you can't trust that the system will work as you expect it to.
Yes. One key element of "poetteringware", as people here call these new programs, is their Linux-centrism. It's really built with Linux in mind and not really meant to be portable to BSDs, Mac OS or whatever. This is why they'll always be much more powerful than whatever old junk they're replacing, and why they will always provide much more value than risk.
This pretty much written on the README:
>Iproute2 development is closely tied to Linux kernel networking development.
>Most new features require a kernel and a utility component.
You can be sued by anyone for literally any reason, even completely made up reasons, and it's up to the judge to determine who's right and it's up to you to put down the cash for a lawyer and defend yourself. It doesn't even matter if the company loses, their goal is to burn your cash and waste your time until you settle out of court in unfavorable terms. It's a legally-sanctioned economic game that's not dissimilar to extortion.
Hope that doesn't spike your paranoia too much. Sleep tight.
>But legal recourse is much more neccessary as it deters people from writing alternatives in the first place as a form of mental warfare.
Nah. Linux wins without suing anyone. It wins because Linux moves exceedingly fast. You could close up the source and modify it with your enhancements and even ship it out. While you'd technically be violating the GPL, I doubt Linus will give a fuck. The fact is Linux moves forward so fast it makes it very difficult for companies to keep integrating their work with new versions. It gives them an extremely strong incentive to push their work upstream so it can be mainlined and maintained. Even unscrupulous chinese companies who flat out told them "sue me, you'll get nowhere anyway" saw the benefit here.
Upstream your work or die. Linux has no time for these moronic companies who refuse to share code, it leaves them in the dust. They're toys and the kernel is bigger than them.
>GNU people believe you can and should simply recompile everything from source.
There's nothing wrong with that. It just takes 1 emerge command to do so.
It's a wrapper for applications which "require" Pulse Audio, which makes them work flawlessly with ALSA, no Pulse Audio needed.
<aw dang no sound with youtube because I removed Pulse Audio
>sound just werks
>The real reason they don't care about binary compatibility is they like giving free software advantages. While Linus Torvalds understands the value of having a old ass binary he compiled in the 90s run completely unmodified on the modern 4.x kernels, GNU people believe you can and should simply recompile everything from source. Because the source is always available and free, right? Well, the company that went out of business won't be able to simply recompile from source, and while Linux itself will be perfectly willing to run said software, GNU faggots effectively conspire to prevent that from happening. It's a strategy. Not only that, brainwashed people don't even recognize that it's happening. Not even the antisemitic retards in this thread realize that it's happening.
Was this ever a secret? I thought it was obvious. There's nothing wrong with this, either.
>There's nothing wrong with this
That's just like your opinion man.
Enjoy your ridiculously unstable software, retards.
I will enjoy my perfectly stable API. My software ABI is stable because the programming experts make it stable 😁 😁
Funny. The software I install are completely stable.
I bet it works real well when I plug in a USB microphone and want to use it on a firefox chat program.
Linux is an "aged" kernel from years of compromised development.
Get on GNU/Hurd instead: https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/hurd-install
I already know you're going to say I glow in the dark, but HURD will *never* finish. Probably because once they had Emacs, GNUtards realized they had no need for another OS.
It's a pretty good fork or Darwin with GNU instead of XNU.
both are shit
Why is "multi server" a selling point?
Turns out reality is different, kid. Windows program definitely have dependencies, the thing is that (most of) the required DLLs are shipped with the program itself, which has the large disadvantage of significantly increasing the size of the binaries.
Or, an executable is compiled with static linking, which makes it not depend on any external library, but that increases the size of the binary as well.
The Linux way is usually to use dynamic shared libraries, so that disk and memory are saved, because the same code segments can be shared by several programs. Shipping those libraries with each program release would make package larger than they need to be, hence the need for a package manager, which works a million times better than downloading Babylon Toolbar, OfferBox and a couple more adware programs from Softonic before eventually getting the program you want, which is the Windows way.
Package managing makes the whole system extremely secure and stable, when not administrated by incompetents, and unless you're trying to install really obscure shit, or Windows stuff (lmao), you should be covered by your distro's repositories.
As for what you mention with the ./configure && make && make install way, they usually come with a README file you ought to read. More often than not, they will detail which packages are needed, and a lot of them even give you the command needed to install them.
>Why is "multi server" a selling point?
Easy to swap out kernel modules without restarting
The UNIX Way(TM)
Ability to interact without arcane programmatic syscalls (see Plan9)
Really fault tolerant, can't crash it
If I can survive crashing my mum's hyundai I can crash anything.
That's it! time to go home~ buh bum bum buh bum bum
Kill yourself retard monkey nigger.
Is anyone implementing WOF and WOF2 font support? I can rip the fonts but I can't import them on ubuntu 16.04.
haha was that your video?
That's it! time to go home~
I hate systemd and gnome so fucking much.
Wow, let me plug in this device driver -- written by some Taiwanese kid who wrote it in 30 minutes and never tested it because his Chink boss was breathing down his neck about deadline -- directly into my kernel.
Microkernels keep em in user space.
frankly if a device driver hasn't been written by virgins that exclusively crosspost between /r/incel and /r/unixporn then it's a driver you shouldn't link anywhere.