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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.


See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.


1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

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Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
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Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
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You have been the first board nominated.

This thread is intended to get

>20 person roster

>team emblem

>team uniform design

Let's have some fun

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No, propaganda is propaganda. Pretty damn simple.

I don't care what fruitcake hyper minority op-ed you can cite. It's not up for debate among historians of credibility and merit that the North treated free blacks as poorly as the antebellum and Civil War era South. It's Holocaust denial tier and isn't taken seriously for good reason.

>Nice projection

I'm not denying objective, demonstrably provable history with dubious sources. You are. End of.

>The USA was primarily concerned with the right of its industrialist aristocrat caste to profit off the state.

Proof that the South was primarily concerned with slave ownership: Mountains of evidence from the historical record

Proof that the North was driven by industry profits: Discredited secessionist apologetics


>They went out of their way to try to separate peacefully, on good terms.

Incorrect. They shot first and were spoiling for a fight. A clean separation would have denied them the honorable battle their European-nobility emulating elites desired.




>I don't care what fruitcake hyper minority op-ed you can cite

There you go again, throwing out anything that doesn't go with your version of history.

>I'm not denying objective, demonstrably provable history with dubious sources

Yes you are.

>the official republican party platform, lincoln's speeches, and actions taken during the war are dubious secessionist apologetics

>were spoiling for a fight

Then why was one of Davis' first acts as president to offer to buy every piece of federal property in the south and pay off the southern portion of the national debt? Why did they spend months waiting before firing on Fort Sumter?



>Yes, the one that wasn't betraying their country

Does your LARPing ass also malign the British subjects living in the American colonies for "betraying their country" and rebelling against England?


YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.



I don't know how closely you follow the Mises Institute, but their Youtube channel has been doing a pretty in-depth overview of the Civil War and the events leading up to it that may be prudent to the discussion.



>apples and oranges

Typical snek autism.


What's wrong with being a pedo, other than because the jews said so?

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I do think that kids can consent to other contracts. However, I think that the way that most people think of contracts is ridiculous and all sorts of fucked up. On the one hand, you clearly can't take out a loan and then say "I don't consent to make payments on this," but on the other, "Hah! Here on page 273 paragraph 18 section 3 of the contract you signed says that you have to eat this pile of shit!" is fucking stupid. I imagine that most if not all examples you'll give of why kids shouldn't be allowed to sign contracts are going to involve some sort of dumb gotcha buried in legalese, but the thing about sex is that it's so fucking easy to withdraw consent. It's as simple as "that doesn't feel good, I want to stop," and then it's over (or it's rape, which no one is advocating that we legalize). It's nothing like a surgical procedure where you'll be unconscious and unable to change your mind until it's over.




if child consents


If commies are fair helicopter-game in ancapistan, it goes triple for pedos.



i dont get it



>How about gender reassignment surgery and/or HRT? Can this procedure be done before puberty without violating the NAP?


>gender reassignment surgery

<toddler comes up alone and convinces the boothstooge themselves.

<toddler is taken to the piercing booth by its parents.

…circumcision, tattoos, cool-ass dragon bodymod. Only one of these is potentially ethical.

>and/or HRT?

It may be unethical for them to be anything that is NOT a lupron'd larohn dwarf until it picks, you know, the serious decision of a bodyform…

So, the conversation has come full circle and we're all DFC2yo now. Unless you're a goddamn dragon. :)

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Let's have a "Questions that don't deserve their own thread" thread. Basic questions about /liberty/, socialist "gotchas" masquerading as basic questions, etc.

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I should've just went to a tech institute school instead of this shit


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What is the best argument you have for libertarianism, that would convert someone from natsoc? I like natsoc because of the reasons on the right side of pic related (ignore strawman arguments on ancap side). I've seen another anon in this thread talking about monarchy being a solution, as you could have a monarch that protects the wellbeing and rights of the people, while enforcing traditions and stuff. But that's not truly libertarian unless I'm just a brainlet and looking at it wrong. And isn't natsoc essentially just a Hoppean covenant taken to the extreme? See if you can change my mind.


I'm skeptical of the idea that monarchism is the answer considering that it lead directly to World War I and subsequently the headaches of Communism and Fascism.


The claims of national socialists that they secure economic prosperity, strength, and even tradition are specious. The NSDAP inherited the benefits of economic reforms under the Weimar Republic, they did not unfuck the economy from Weimar mistakes. The bids for "national strength" resulted in centralization and aggression. As for tradition, they only really expressed comely fondness for the tip of that iceberg infographic and coudln't really do much more sense they were a modern movement without roots in the actual history of their countries. Wilhelm II didn't think much of Hitler's claim to championing German heritage.

The best argument for libertarianism for a natsoc is that some hardliner stripes of it, like ancap, would permit you and a like-minded cohort to assemble everything you want and like about a natsoc society provided you didn't start stampeding for lebensraum. You could carve out a community as your shared property where observance of tradition is required, ethnic purity checked, a strong fighting force is maintained, and usury is illegal.

I don't think it's comparable to a Hoppean covenant because as far as I know said covenant would still depend on everyone in it agreeing to abide by libertarian principles. Members of the covenant who started advocating for national socialist policies would probably get physically removed.



So follow up question, do you think ancap is possible in the world today? I think that we're so entrenched in this idea that we need a government that it'll be nearly impossible to convince the masses that we don't need one (or at least a smaller one).



It is feasible, maybe, to set up special administrative zones that are an-cap as far as not having any local, state, or provincial laws. They would still probably be under the jurisdiction of a nation-state entity, but if one succeeded it could prove that less formal governing apparatus can work out and not necessarily degenerate into Somali warlordism.

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Where do I go to escape the statists for good /liberty/?


You kind of have to pick between economic and social liberty. Switzerland, I hear, is pretty good and relatively uncucked by Muslims.




> Recommending running to a state to escape statism

I was thinking more like an abandoned mountain in the yukon.



Pretty much all territory on the globe is claimed by some entity or shared by multiples of them. Even if you tried to squat in the hinterlands eating bear meat, the Canadian government could still find and fine you much like the US government does to people who try to go innawoods off the side of the highway. If you still want to try it, you could probably get homesteading advice from places like /k/ or /out/

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is singapore /ourguy/?



Singapore is the followup to Chile in proving that free markets are a necessary but not sufficient requisite for liberty.

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itt news that make you angery

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It's just physical removal..,.




The silver lining is that we have lots of new morally legitimate opportunities for carbombs to make a comeback






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if you have any, state them here.

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isn't paleo too high-testosterone for leftists?



Beats me, I don't pay attention to these meme diets.



You need to understand that agorism is a strategy, not a mass movement. It's one where the goal isn't to achieve ideological hegemony, which always fails if your movement can't appeal to emotion, but to incentivise people to act in their own self-interest to the detriment of the state, even though they may not be agorists themselves and have never heard of anything relating to economics. We don't have to do any proselytizing ourselves. Their self-interest will turn them to the black market provided shit hits the fan hard enough.

And the one thing that has made agorism here to stay cryptocurrency. Due to its nature as a store of value that can't be tracked or controlled by banks or government, it's the first thing people seek to secure their wealth, and even survival. If you look at economically repressed countries like Venezeula, the people are ditching their ever-inflating currencies for cryptocurrencies like bitcoin cash and ethereum. For most people in Venezuela, using cryptocurrency has ensured their survival. They use it to trade with the black market for supplies and bribe officials to look the other way. The government despises cryptocurrency, but they are powerless to control it, and it's going to take a lot of confidence in the government for Venezuelans to ditch cryptocurrency whom they know its core advantages for worthless pieces of paper.

Nearly everyone in the western world laughs at cryptocurrency or treat it with ambivalence, but that's only because they're complacent and comfortable with the current financial system, once that collapses and the dollar hyperinflates, expect some common sense to be knocked into the people, when they seek out cryptocurrencies to ensure their own survival, and with high gun ownership in the US, expect the government to have a much more difficult time taxing and controlling the population.



Runescape money is a better currency than venezuelan currency because socialism is a fucking death cult


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lmao I just spammed /leftpol/ and I notice they filtere kike to Capitalist.

It was a pain to write K i k e in every mention but it's always worth it.


See the 2 smaller pics

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is sociobiology the most redpill science ever?





what about evolutionary psychology?


psychological hedonism beats it




nice meme



So in your efforts to LARP, do you just take the opposite view to anything liberals believe in out of spite? Admittedly they stop believing in it from the neck up when they aren't talking to muh YEC.

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super gay



Top cringe, fam

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is it just a conspiracy theory that war cancels debt?

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Barron Trump is Donald Trump from the past masquerading as his own son. Donald Trump is also none other than John Titor.



>Donald Trump is also none other than John Titor.

Steinsgate makes sense now



what is a steinsgate?

t. not a burger



Steins;gate is a Chinese cartoon show about time travel n sheeit.



War is the best and will never go away.

Improvement is our Religion and War is our Service

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I don't like teslafags, nor am i convinced of the usefulness of fully electric vehicles but isn't he kind of /ourguy/?

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your entire society wouldn't exist without subsidies for oil, and energy you mouth breather.


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>supply and demand need subsidies to work




This is hilariously condescending and inaccurate at the same time.




two wrongs don't make a right you dip


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>supply & demand signals explain all of economics


It's still true in our society though.

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How a libertarian experiment in city government fell apart over taxes, debt and some very angry people.



>The abandoned cop cars sat in Trina Reyes’ yard for eight months. She wanted them gone, but there were no police to come get them. Last September, the police department in Von Ormy — a town of 1,300 people just southwest of San Antonio — lost its accreditation after it failed to meet basic standards. Reyes was mayor at the time, so the three patrol cars, as well as the squad’s police radios and its computers, ended up at her home. It was just another low point in a two-year saga that she now counts as one of the most difficult experiences of her life.

>“This is one of the worst things I’ve ever done,” she said of being mayor. “I’ve never dealt with such angry people. I’m washing my hands of everything. … I’m going to travel. I’m going as far away from Von Ormy as I can.”

>For the last few years, Von Ormy has been in near-constant turmoil over basic issues of governance: what form of municipal government to adopt, whether to tax its residents, and how to pay for services such as sewer, police, firefighters and animal control. Along the way, three City Council members were arrested for allegedly violating the Open Meetings Act, and the volunteer fire department collapsed for lack of funds. Nearly everyone in town has an opinion on who’s to blame. But it’s probably safe to say that the vision of the city’s founder, a libertarian lawyer whose family traces its roots in Von Ormy back six generations, has curdled into something that is part comedy, part tragedy.

>In 2006, fearing annexation by rapidly encroachPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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also, repeat thread


>20 police officers for a town of 1,300

Doesn't sound small government to me. My town has 40,000+ population with 4 cops


>Today, there is no city animal control program and stray dogs roam the streets

Koreans will solve this problem ;)


>Von Ormy

>Vo Normy



I live in San Antonio and actually there are no problems in Von Ormy - Texas is actually an extremely cronyist state so that's where statewide problems stem from, Von Ormy's success is in avoiding incorporation by San Antonio. This bullshit article is statist shilling don't believe it.



t. shitskin

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I was thinking about how in ancap the rights of individuals will be maintained by setting up the powers that be to be equally balanced so they're too busy fighting each other to bully the common man. Now normally people think that this will take the form of competing service providing corporations, but actually what if we could make it a shell government instead? Think about it. If we abolish government, someone else will try to take its place because of thousands of years of human conditioning. They have some kind of mystical attraction to authority. So we should give them exactly what they ask for, a government. But not a functional one, but a bloated, inefficient bureaucracy. One that's so tied up in checks, balances, and red tape that it's impossible to get anything done, and if you look closely, literally impossible to pass laws thanks to the legalese we will write into the constitution. We can create an intentional honeypot to attract all the corrupt politicians and moral busybodies to keep them safely away from the rest of society by promising a power they can never attain. Itt is a thread for throwing out ideas that can be integrated into the future world government to make it a failure. Ill start.

I think that the first thing that should be done is the construction of a pyramid scheme where junior politicians pay tribute to senior politicians as a "test of loyalty" but actually so that senior politicians dont get the idea to levy taxes to pay their salary.

Additionally, we should establish lots of lots of aristocracy because aristocracy invariable develops a superiority complex, and we can spin it in such a way that they dont feel obligated to contribute to national defense. Something like "the commons need to fend for themselves", but in actuality, it takes away their biggest pretext for collecting taxes.


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>One that's so tied up in checks, balances, and red tape that it's impossible to get anything done

Sounds like the ideal government. However, what will prevent officials from ignoring their delegated powers, assuming implied powers reserved for someone else, and/or bypass checks against their actions via executive orders?



Ideally, there's no such things as executive orders, and if an official ever decides to go over the heads of his superiors and do things without authorization, he'll find out that he doesnt actually wield power at all. So he can tell people that X thing is illegal but there will be nobody standing by to enforce that claim.



This sounds interesting, I'll think about this for a while and get back to you with some ideas.

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