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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Welcome to /liberty/, your board for the discussion of politics, society, news, and the human condition without authoritarianism (fascism, full-on communism, etc). The board's philosophy is simple - welcome all discussion from non-authoritarian viewpoints, light moderation, and most importantly of all fun.

We've seen SJWs, we've seen the far right, and we've seen the far left and we've said no, stop this madness - the moralizing authoritarians who seek to control society and shape it to their whims and test out their vague theories would enslave us just to feel that society was better. At /liberty/ we believe we would be best served by sticking to the path we've been on for so long, that of personal liberty.


See the image - if you make the cut, you'll be right at home on /liberty/. Even if you are an authoritarian (far left or far right), you're welcome to join us - just don't expect to be taken seriously.


1. Global Rules uber alles.

2. Spamming can result in a short ban. In the event of raids, discussion threads will be stickied to weather the storm.

3. Rules are lame, don't make me make more and don't whine for more moderation unless it is absolutely necessary.

4. This board has an actual topic and it's not fetish porn. Content that is clearly beyond the pale of the board's topic (fetish porn, clop, gore, etc) will be removed. If you need these things, they are a mere three clicks away; you can even get there one-handed.

Board Policy Vis-a-vis…

1. "Shitposting"

There is no such thing as shitposting. It's a vague and subjective concept that boils down to "irreverent posts or things I don't like," and therefore makes a bad yardstick for moderation. If you want discussion without fun, may I suggest another board?

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Help to compile a list of resources (preferably free) about non-authoritarian political thought. If you want to see something added, make a thread to discuss adding things to this list and I'll edit it in here if it's good.

Our list so far:
Please note that inclusion on this list is not an endorsement of a work. What you do with this information is your choice.

The Online Library of Liberty
Find hundreds of writings, books, essays, etc. on classical liberal thought.

Mises Institute
Find dozens of free books, audiobooks, and lectures on libertarian thought from an Austrian school perspective.

The Anarchist Library
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Organizations of Interest
Inclusion on the list is not endorsement. Organizations are listed in no particular order.

The Fire - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education
These people are your friends - they fight for freedom! FIRE is a non-partisan individual rights advocacy group that seeks to defend freedom of speech, legal equality, due process, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience on American college and university campuses.
Website: http://www.thefire.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFIREorg

American Enterprise Institute
The AEI is a nonpartisan public policy research institute. Everything from American politics to international events and beyond.
Website: https://www.aei.org/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/AEIVideos

Learn Liberty
A project of the Institute for Humane Studies, a libertarian non-profit. Learn about economics, public policy, and more.
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Would Free Software licenses be allowed in Ancapistan?

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uh yea I can think a thought any number of times only limited by the longevity and quality of my brain

other people can think that thought to completely independent of me with the same lack of restriction

ideas are not property dude there is no way to build a fence around them



>there is no way to build a fence around them

This isn't true, if not we wouldn't be able to keep secrets and hide/control information flow.

>other people can think that thought to completely independent of me with the same lack of restriction

Then it's a high supply idea that is not economically viable to enforce protection, the equivalent of claiming ownership of air. Much of IP is unique to an author or takes a lot of resources to produce, there is near zero probability that all IP will be independently thought of.



a system as complex as algebra was developed independantly



>Because they acquired their goods using their own resources and not illegally through aggressive practice The theft has already happened. It's a separate event.

>Each IP has finite number of uses

That's entirely personal. If someone else is listening to a song, that doesn't do anything at all to my interest in it.



Then it is less scarce. And now that it has disseminated globally, it is economically infeasible to enforce claim to.


>The theft has already happened. It's a separate event.

So possession of stolen property is not an act of aggression if done knowingly?

>That's entirely personal. If someone else is listening to a song, that doesn't do anything at all to my interest in it.

IP is owned by it's identity, not it's copies. The act of someone else listening to a song, takes out a finite use of what is owned. It's not entirely personal when there are no protections from unauthorized distribution. The presence of unauthorized sources does affect your interest in buying from the original source.

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Let's have a "Questions that don't deserve their own thread" thread. Basic questions about /liberty/, socialist "gotchas" masquerading as basic questions, etc.

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>what is Fast and Furious

Even without shit like that happening, the cartels basically own the Mexican government at this point.



Still nothing compared to even a small country's military power.



Unless they happen to operate in a county that's unfriendly to the USA, then they have the firepower of the whole army of the AmeriKKKan Empire behind their backs.



Bumping question.



>anarchocapitalist nation


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What causes the business cycle?

Why do we take growth for granted, yet for many, the recession comes as a surprise? Why do recessions often occur during periods of rapid growth?

What begins a recession? What initiates a crisis?

Can government intervene to end a crisis? Will government intervention cause or prolong a crisis?

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How do we stop banking and other corporate cartels though? Is corporate personhood law a perversion of the principles of local enterprise and responsibility directed at leadership rather than the resources of the organization? The modern corporation seems very much a manufactured creature of the state rather than an inevitability of capitalism.

How do we deal with a corrupt government that doesn't do anything in the people's interest to run the economy properly, what with in 1928 the Fed allowing all the small banks to crash and ultimately concentrating power in the hands of a few?



>How do we stop banking and other corporate cartels though?

Prisoner's Dilemma demonstrates why cartels are fundamentally unstable entities, and can't exist without the government propping them up. The moment one member of the cartel realizes that he's being held back by giving allowances to the cartel's weakest member, the whole thing falls apart and reverts to normal competition.

>Is corporate personhood law a perversion of the principles of local enterprise and responsibility directed at leadership rather than the resources of the organization

Depends what you mean. The whole "corporations are people" meme in the US started when the Supreme Court ruled that corporations had free speech rights, not anything to do with business. In the free market, there would be some instances where the head of a corporation or institution would be legally judged, and other instances where it only makes sense to view the corporation itself as an entity. If the CEO commits fraud you would sue the CEO. But if your'e negotiating a long-term procurement contract with a corporation, you have to make that contract out with the corporation itself, because the terms of your contract are undoubtedly longer than the average tenure of a CEO.

>The modern corporation seems very much a manufactured creature of the state rather than an inevitability of capitalism.

Yes and no. In the sense that there would still be companies that have hundreds of smaller owners holding stock, as opposed to a few partners, corporations would still exist in the free market. However, corporations as they exist now are largely created by government fiat: Any company over a certain number of owners is legally required to list its stock on a publicly traded exchange, such as the NYSE. Any stock on a public exchange can be freely bought or sold by anyone: the freedom to choose who your buyers or sellers are isn't permitted on public exchanges, which artificially limits a company's ability to keep its stock out of nefarious hands, like the "pirate investors" that are around today, who buy up companies, ruin their reputation and loPost too long. Click here to view the full text.


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>the freedom to choose who your buyers or sellers are isn't permitted on public exchanges,

When was this law established and for what purpose?



>well thought-out, economically literate comment

>eager to learn

>made by a commie

Dont ever leave, please. We need more of you, answering thw 15millionth question about muh roads becomes exhausting after a while. I'm way too pissed to answer your questions but cheers to you either way




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How would you refute this, /liberty/?

Not a leftist shitposter, just curious in your response.

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You're really just agreeing with me.


>"something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary"

So I guess more than one meal per week is a luxury?

>How so? My grandparents have an active social life but have never even used a PC.

Your grandparents are going to die soon though, and the people that are left behind will all be dependent on computers.



I don't see enough coherence in your argument for anyone to agree with you, you're just sperging about how computers aren't free.



I think what you retards fail to recognize is that you can't take my posts out of context. Fucking read the post I initially replied to.



Food is a requirement. Computers are not.

>people that are left behind will all be dependent on computers.

Not my parents and they have another 30+ years.



computer is a requirement to education and having fun

arent they basic human rights?

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Did he effectively defend properly rights?



si, naturalmente

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Redpill me on this shit. What is the super secret formula that the alt-right kids have that makes their version of socialism magically more successful than anyone else's?

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that is because polak stuff isnt about economic institutions and the law regulating private property, it is more about the attitudes, culture, opinions on topics, and so on

for example, you can have both, a white nationalist commie commune, and a white nationalist private property contract law society

its about not mixing the races, not market transactions



>I can almost guarantee that you'll never get a straight or even remotely economic answer.

And then because they have nothing to say, they start talking about Jews and niggers. From what I gathered, their version of "national-socialism" isn't even the same as Hitler's national-socialism, theirs is just short-sighted protectionist policies and the rest is some kind of Aryan magic because "simply because we are Aryans⁽ᶜⁱᵗᵃᵗⁱᵒⁿ ⁿᵉᵉᵈᵉᵈ⁾, it will all magically work out and we will all live in a utopia". I mean seriously, if you're ever going to give these people control of your economy, you at least want them to have some kind of plan or program, not some abstract promise that "this time it will work, because it's us doing it, because we are different, because we think we're special and unlike other guys".



But then why do they reinvent the wheel and pretend like their ideology is somehow special and different, instead of choosing from the traditional communist-capitalist dichotomy?



They believe that race realism will produce high iq population, and out of these high iq population high iq economists will appear to handle the economy, high iq generals to handle military, etc etc.

Going to alt right/pol for economy is like going to car mechanic for a kidney pain. That's not how that works.


Because communism-capitalism thingie is reversable, you can go back from one to another, but if the aryan race (tm) disappears, its an irreversible process. Which is why you might hear them talk economy from time to time, but securing the existence of white race (quite literally the official motto and the anthem of those guys) is much more important.

They dont know whether capitalism or communism works better, all they know is that the aryans (tm) will do them both better.



this is edgy (in the usa)

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Just leaving this here

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Depends on what the hell you consider "yours," but generally, yes.

Your negroes own the plantation now, though.



>socialized profits, privatized losses

Enjoy your chronic, society wide lack of motivation to innovate, take risks, or do the dirty work.


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These damn uppity negroes don't know how the farm though, what if I force them to collectivize under my rule?



Leftists have an IQ of 80.



Exactly. Sharing bad things is bad, so stop sharing your socialism with us.


>Anarchists love lenin

I hate Lenin.

t. ancap

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So what exactly was this guy's beef with science fiction aficionados?

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>He called Star Wars a "cartoony, comic-strip movie,"

Sounds about right to me.

>and I don't think he was a fan of 2001 either

I'd disagree with him there, but I'm still interested in the reason why he didn't like it.

>he hated the kind of people we call "sci fi nerds"

Given that demographic's tendency to circlejerk over post scarcity, I can't exactly fault him for this either.



I really wish people would seperate science fiction and science fantasy.

Science Fiction = usually good

Science Fantasy = magical bubbly shit that normalfags watch



There was an essay Rothbard wrote on "modal libertarians". He characterized them with their love of sci-fi, among other things, but he didn't say explicitly why he found this disdainful. I figured from the text, though, that he didn't like that all they read was sci-fi, and that they had zero regard for culture, which includes other forms of literature. He was a historian too, after all, so it only makes sense he wouldn't hold people in high regard who try to live in the future and forget the past.



Name was left over from /monarchy/, kek.



If he has anything against Dune, I will officially renounce libertarianism.

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is it possible to be a radical ancap and have a gf or a wife or a spouse?

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It's like finding a non lefty pridefag homo for a bf. So just get lucky bro lmao I didn't even try XDDD b urself



Yes. There actually are quality girls out there. My girlfriend is a conservative and fairly friendly towards capitalism, as her father owns a factory.



>Ancraps are self serving kikes who'd hook up with whores to inherit their money

No surprise there.



>implying successful people dont natuarally congregate



Actually, I'll probably earn more money than her once I've established myself as a criminal defense attorney, which will happen before she is finished with higher education. Also before she can leave her developing country, where electricity is rationed and not available 24/7, even though her father is "rich" (actually just well-off, and trust me, he works hard for it). But yeah, I'm just with her to inherit her impressive wealth. Like, totally.

Homework for you: Ask yourself what possible value was created when you clicked on "New Reply".

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


It's just human nature.

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Honestly, this country has long since failed to live up to the false ideology it still purports. You could conceivably lie to yourself and believe the American mythology and tell yourself how great and good it all is and how god blessed the land with our presence, but you can't when that presence is then handed all the combined wealth of the old world empires over two world wars, and then proceeds to utterly fail to develop a vision or functional constructive philosophy, and falls back on pre-enlightenment medieval culture accomplishing nothing but self-defeating decisions 7 decades in a row.

The American century was last epcentury. The worlds Old Money merely waits, as it has done from empire to empire countless times, for the next more exciting up and coming nation of possibility. The US is not a developing nation, not because it achieves utopia, but because it lacks the ability to develop further. It's done.



If you are a 13 year old living a sedentary life, then 2000 would be enough. For an active inmate 20-year old male, 3,000 kcal are needed.




Shame that all that free food only gets them 2/3rds of the way



Cool story bro.


It should be commonsense that these numbers can't be right, unless you've never made a serious effort to become fit or lose weight in your life. One double whopper, if google is to be believed, has about 250 calories. So according to this chart, if you're between twenty and thirty and living a "sedentary" lifestyle, you will lose weight if you eat nine double whoppers a day. Of course, that would be all you eat, but still, nine fatty, cheesy, greasy burgers while you sit on your computer all day and never leave the house except to go to McDonalds? You can't be serious.

And the "active" category is probably for people who are at least hobby athletes. I know I didn't lose much weight when I was 220 pounds and lifting weights three times a week, and I was eating significantly less than 2800 calories on most days of the week. Of course, professional lifters eat between 3000 and 4000 calories a day, but eating that much is such an integral part of their job, they could probably deduct their chicken wings from taxes.



>Of course, professional lifters eat between 3000 and 4000 calories a day, but eating that much is such an integral part of their job, they could probably deduct their chicken wings from taxes.

My point being, being able to eat so much that you could make it as a professional powerlifter isn't something that you should take for granted. It's the equivalent of fancy suits and legal codes for a lawyer, or wine for a professional wine tester.

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Would gun running be a legitimate anarcho-capitalist activity? Could there be a gun manufacturing and marketing society that exists because no nation could conquer it without massive casualties?

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>hur dur I'm retarded

As retarded as someone claiming Sweden is socialist.



>As retarded as someone claiming Sweden is socialist.

A demographic that included most socialists until the "Sweden YES" memes started propagating around 4 years ago.


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>"Most "socialists""

Where are you getting this crap from?



Well, our numerous talks with socialists of all stripes over the years? I remember very well that a lot of lefties used to love Sweden, and some still do. Same with Venezuela. I predicted that lefties would stop praising it after the civil unrests and the shortages, but what I didn't predict was how fast it would happen. You disavowed the country just after it went to shit, but of course, none of you, or none that I have met (even though you faggots constantly hang around my board), have ever talked about this. You basically erased your memory, which is to be expected from uncultured swine like you, who have no sense of tradition. And it was the same with the Soviet Union, Red China, and Vietnam, which your predecessors loved before their shortcomings became all too obvious. That's when they stopped being "socialist" and became "state capitalist" instead.

I can only say this again, socialists are unprincipled assholes without any of the virtues that make a good intellectual. Your ideology is disgusting and most of the people that propagate it are disgusting, too, and I more and more find myself wishing you suceed with your woker's revolution just so you can all starve to fucking death already, as that is the only thing you and your shitty ideology are good for.




>replying honestly to someone using unfunny cuckchan memes

>replying honestly to a communist

You've made at least two mistakes, my friend.

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>issue credit for yourself debt free

Is this the end of history?

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If it has to be subsidized it was doomed to fail. You're propping up shit energy alternatives instead of lettimg them die and get replaced by better sources of power. fusion power by 2020 moon mission by 2040 infinite helium 3 by 2050



>against renewable energy.

What if oil is a renewable source of energy?



Unless you live in Arizona or next to a waterfall generator, the materials used to build your renewable energy sources are just as (if not more harmful) than natural gas/coal generation right down the street (because the renewables don't generate enough energy anyways).

Nuclear is god's gift to mankind and a test to see if we can properly harness its energy and byproducts (which are useful) instead of using it to malevolent whims.



>Implying it's not

Now we just need to stick carbon-eating bacteria in the atmosphere to go along with the oil-producing bacteria.


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How much of this is real and how much of it is speculative shit that will inevitably crash?


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Who knows?


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I want to fuck Miku

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