[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / agatha / arepa / ausneets / hkon9 / hkpol / india / sei / vg ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

A collective of people engaged in pretty much what the name suggests
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
Password (Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Options
dicesidesmodifier

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf, pdf
Max filesize is 16 MB.
Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000.
You may upload 5 per post.


Tags: leftism (CLICK HERE FOR MORE LEFTIST 8CHAN BOARDS), politics, activism, news

File: 87562bc9e721624⋯.png (84.98 KB, 950x534, 475:267, Straya.png)

 No.2541268

So what have we got to work with?

Parties:

>CPA and CPA(ML)

Leftovers from the og CPA, sino soviet split tore em apart etc. Now cooperating more closely.

Stuck in the 20th century?

>Socialist Alternative

Bob Briton (CPA General secretary) on SAlt: " The group is sectarian and disruptive of others' efforts to organise. Its members are energetic and have recruited heavily (though often temporarily) to their organisation. They don't think the time is yet ready for a mass socialist party. Though we have tried, we find it hard to work with SAlt as there is little or no respect for others' work. They sidetrack and lose lots of young people interested in left politics."

>The Socialist Party and The Socialist Alliance

Trots. Anyone got any info on them? Any good at all?

>Pirate party

Yarr

>ALP

From Bob Briton again: ""We used to hold that the Australian Labor Party is a "two class party", i.e. it has mass working class party but is dominated by groups loyal to capitalism. Lenin's summation of the party in 1913 is spot on! We used to work well in the trade union movement with the left of the ALP but those days are gone. We always seek to work with sincere better elements but the ALP has become the alternative party of capital, pure and simple. I government it has introduced most of the major changes necessary for the disastrous "neo-liberal" economy and is only a slightly better "choice" for voters at elections than the Liberals. We don't think there is any value in people joining the ALP in order to shift it to the left. It never was a socialist party and never will be."

The trade unions are kicking up a fuss, the CFMEU and MUA are in bed with eachother and are probably gonna form some super union one day.

An anon suggested we start our own orgs. Is this even a viable option?

What do we do about the emus?

 No.2541285

You sure ALP cannot be saved? Blairite labour seemed pretty dead too.


 No.2541289

File: ba9cd1bd0423a5b⋯.png (197.89 KB, 950x534, 475:267, Strayaa.png)

>>2541281

yes lord spurdo poster

>>2541285

Do we need an aussie corbyrn or just enough commies in Labor?


 No.2541299

>>2541289

Well the latter can facilitate the former, but identifying MPs you can see are genuine leftists. Then you need a Momentum like org. With that you are set. Unions are a big part of this too, youll need them.


 No.2541304

>>2541299

>identifying MPs you can see are genuine leftists

Know any genuine leftist politicians?

The only socialist I've heard of lately is Steve Jolly.

He's running in the Victorian state election as part of the Victorian Socialists.


 No.2541307

>>2541304

Sorry lad, I'm a britisher.


 No.2541378

>>2541268

If you don't like the way these groups run find like minded individuals and build a small group that will co-operate and work with CPA, SAlt, etc but don't hold the old negatives.

You wouldn't happen to be in WA and want to work with some syndicalists?


 No.2541381

File: 66323be9c2bb538⋯.jpg (94.41 KB, 562x767, 562:767, Palace of the Soviets.jpg)

>>2541268

>CPA

I was a member of them for a few good years.

They are a wonderful group that I would highly recommend.

Bob Briton is a great guy that was always really friendly to me (I still have a book he gave me on the history of the CPSU from the 30s on my bookshelf) and much of the leadership seems to be made up of solid 'old labour' types.

While they lack much of a cohesive ideology beyond simple Marxism-Leninism; Just about every senior member has been involved in militant unionism for decades, resulting in an informal ideology that I could only describe as a hybrid of Marxist-Leninism and De Leonism.

Even if you are not looking to join.

I would advise anyone who happens to be in Sydney to make a trip to their office.

They have a massive bust of Lenin there that was a gift from the embassy of the USSR in the late 80s.

It was a crazy experience for me when I first came across it - like I had stepped into an alternative timeline where the USSR never fell.

>CPA(ML)

The party pretty much just exists as a stack of newspapers that is infrequently sneaked into the Melbourne union hall at this point.

Most of its old membership have ether died, retired from politics or Joined the CPA.

While always rather kooky, they were a serious Maoist party in their prime.

When I was a member of the CPA, I would often talk to a former CPA(ML) member about his time with them during their prime years; Apparently much of the party (including the guy I talked to) had spent time in China being taught how to conduct a protracted guerilla war during the 50s and 60s.

Being given the basics in how to conducted a guerilla war (as planned by their PLA military trainers) against the Australian government over a beer by a guy in his 70s is quite the experience.

>Socialist Alternative

Bob is pretty much spot on regarding them.

Really they are a group that combines all of the worst stereotypes regarding trot groups.

They have a creepy cult of personally surrounding their founder, they are riddled with internal cliques, they are utterly obsessed with id-pol, they are sectarian to the point of actively attempting to sabotage other left wing groups events and to top everything else off - they are almost certainly the product of some ASIO operation.

>The Socialist Party

I really cannot say anything about them as I never interacted with them or knew anyone that did back when I was a Socialist.

However them being trots would be enough for me to advise caution.

>The Socialist Alliance

A pretty cool group everything considered.

As far as trots go they are not at all sectarian and as such were the main group that my CPA branch collaborated with.

In all of my interactions with them, they were always very nice and helpful.

They do have a bad habit of attempting to 'poach' members from other organisations however.

>Pirate party

An irrelevancy.

>ALP

The party mainstream are just neo-liberals in red.

Fundamentally, the fact that they attempt to hide their contempt for working people is the main thing that separates them from the Liberals.

They are not salvageable.

>Greens

SJWs and filthy hippies that are more concerned with empty 'feel good' policies then having a coherent ideology or educated positions.

The official party of the Australian anti-vaxxers - so expect them to be against vaccinations (doubtlessly wanting to replace them with 'crystal healing') in the next few years.

>IWW

A seriously underrated group from my interactions with them.

While I cannot speak for branches other then the Brisbane one circa 6 years ago, they seem to be a great group of people.

They are non-sectarian and friendly to the point that I helped them carry their banner during a may-day march.

>An anon suggested we start our own orgs

>Is this even a viable option?

Do you have access to a large amount of capital?

If not then no.

Do you have some revolutionary new ideology that is sure to capture the hearts and minds of the average worker?

If not then no, again.

I'm not a socialist, so I do admit that I'm rather biased here.

But I do not see any socialist group that lacks a great deal of funding our has some super new ideology doing very well.

The only reason why I think the two ideologies that I have formulated have a chance of succeeding is that they both are able to take power without relying upon the average worker.

The average worker in the dystopia that is modern Australia is far to depressed, distracted and tired to care much about revolutionary politics I think; Hell, just about every adult younger then 40 seems to have retreated into some safe adolescent shell of pop-culture to escape the harsh reality of neo-liberalism.


 No.2541382

The Democrat party has lost my vote, that's for certain. The way they assfucked Bernie Sanders did it for me. Baby steps? That never got us anywhere. And why would we trust yet another party of white people? Like white people have ever done anything good.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

 No.2541392

>>2541381

I wouldn't say that starting your own org is impossible, or even really terribly hard.

I think the most difficult is finding like minded people who are dedicated.

Start with small things, make posters, go to rallys, try and engage with people willing to talk, do some direct action, etc.

Build connections with leftists in your area, work towards getting leftist ideas out there in a way that people aren't going to be turned off by *cough* SAlt *cough*


 No.2541396

>>2541381

Tell me scott,

What is the difference between technocracy and socialism? Can't you have technocratic socialism?


 No.2541414

>>2541381

>>2541268

>Everyone here forgetting the AGRARIAN NAZBOL SOC-DEM GANG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katter%27s_Australian_Party


 No.2541441

File: 4b85aafd9ef810d⋯.png (112.97 KB, 188x268, 47:67, gay crocs.png)

File: 1ef4ab1679a733b⋯.jpg (56.25 KB, 700x350, 2:1, fea309a6-13e2-4309-8778-a9….jpg)

>>2541414

Old Crocodile Dundee.


 No.2541464

>>2541392

Starting a leftist organisation is indeed not very hard.

Starting a successful leftist organisation however is extremely hard and as I mentioned previously, would require either large amounts of capital or a wonderful new ideology - preferably both.

>>2541396

>What is the difference between technocracy and socialism?

There are a very large number of differences and frankly I lack the desire to list them all.

The two big irreconcilable differences between Technocracy (a term I have attempting to move away from in favour of 'Stratocracy') and Socialism however are worker control over the means of production and democracy.

Both concepts are central to Socialism and yet fundamentally incompatible with Technocracy.

>Can't you have technocratic socialism?

No.

You can have either Technocracy in a thin red vainer or Socialism with minor aspects of authoritarianism and militarisation; But you can never have a true mixture of both.

>>2541414

While far, far from ideal; They are the only party that I consistently give a high preference vote towards.

I used to have a similar opinion of the shooters party before they decided that fair and responsible firearms legislation should take a back seat to making it legal to actively try and ruin the environment because of 'muh freedoms'.


 No.2541466

>>2541268

Im a Socialist party member, AMA.

We're pretty orthodox trots and hate the stupid shit SAlt pulls btw


 No.2541487

>>2541464

What would you define as a successful organization?


 No.2541490

Slightly of topic but still /aus/ news

>The Beautiful implosion of One Nation on live TV

Guys! Guys! Lets all point and laugh!


 No.2541505

>>2541490

What about 'em?


 No.2541510

File: c903ffeb9d16d1a⋯.jpg (258.2 KB, 883x1200, 883:1200, GW.jpg)

>>2541505

One Nation is a Right-Populist meme party in Queensland that appeals to fears of Muh Chinks and Muh Muslims

One of its MPs lost his seat last year because of him being charged with fraud (He was also a Climate change denier who went on about all of Muh ebil Intellectuals attempting to mislead him)

Now the party has collapsed because another one of its MPs split and Hanson (Its leader) Had a crying meltdown on live TV

Overall a Pretty good outcome


 No.2541523

>>2541510

>One of its MPs lost his seat last year because of him being charged with fraud (He was also a Climate change denier who went on about all of Muh ebil Intellectuals attempting to mislead him)

>Now the party has collapsed because another one of its MPs split and Hanson (Its leader) Had a crying meltdown on live TV

Kek, got a link to the meltdown?


 No.2541524

>>2541510

Got a link? I'm trying to watch it on the SBS website but my internet is shit.


 No.2541528

>>2541524

>>2541524

Nah just saw a replay of it on ABC

The interview was on sky news obviously (Our FOX)

Someone will likely put it up on Youtube in a bit


 No.2541533

>>2541528

No worries.

>>2541523

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/pauline-hanson-fights-back-tears-on-tv-over-fractured-party

Here's where I'm trying to watch it, although the video doesn't want to work for me.


 No.2541535

>>2541466

Im curious about the everyday running of the party and the general stuff you do.

What activities do you engage in?

How regularly do you have meetings?

What kinds of people are in the org?

Do you find what you do within the party worthwhile?

Mainly asking because im thinking joining.


 No.2541539

>>2541528

I've seen it now.

Gave me a bit of a giggle.


 No.2541549

>>2541535

>What activities do you engage in?

Trade union work. Stalls or tabeling. Go to rallies on jist about anything that effects workers. We are now just testing the waters by trying to organise a rent control and public housing campaign.

>How regularly do you have meetings?

Weekly. We have two branches, one meets wednesday nights the other thursday. About every month we have an aggregate meeting.

>What kinds of people are in the org?

Mainly workers, almost no students. Average age is about 28 or 30 or so. Mostly retail/hospo & white collar but we have some sparkies and metro workers. All of them are pretty good, never had a problem with anyobe at least. And we actually read and discuss theory quite s bit.

>Do you find what you do within the party worthwhile?

Yeah. I wouldnt be in the party otherwise. But honestly things are slow, its difficult to discuss socialism with people and to build campaigns. But things are changing.


 No.2542207

File: 708bce464b80e22⋯.webm (180.82 KB, 360x360, 1:1, d.webm)

>>2541381

>De leon


 No.2542229

>>2541382

based mods


 No.2542282

>no one has mentioned Solidarity

Other than that, >>2541381is pretty much spot on.


 No.2542393

File: b6a71c822d183cc⋯.jpg (128.76 KB, 1838x2048, 919:1024, 22222.jpg)

>>2542207

>yourfw Lenin actually liked De-Leon and called him a Inspiration and a great Marxist


 No.2542406

>>2541268

>So what have we got to work with?

You've missed an important element in the mixture, that possibly has moar resources at it's beck and call than possibly even the ALP

The United Front


 No.2543085

File: eac7c539907fdd9⋯.jpg (240.33 KB, 1240x698, 620:349, god fucking damnit part 2 ….jpg)

>>2542406

>The left united

Like that's ever going to happen


 No.2543089

>>2542406

>the left united

If you're going to do that you're going to have to get rid of SALT.


 No.2543470

>>2541464

What about many people starting their own many leftist organizations who then, through cooperation, end up being large and somewhat powerful in numbers and capital? The small efforts of many become one perhaps.


 No.2543476

How is country not burgerland 2.0?

Everything I've read about it reminds me of my country, minus the guns.


 No.2543478

>>2543390

At that point its no left id wish to be part of.


 No.2543479

>>2543476

You must be ignorant as shit then


 No.2543486

>>2541441

I've met old mate Bob Katter, he's a fucking top bloke, one of the few people in parliament who gives a shit about the workers. I remember listening to ABC Radio Brisbane a few years ago and he described himself as being part of the left. Not a socialist mind you but one of the good guys regardless.


 No.2543487

>>2543085

>>2543089

>>2543390

*cough*

Proper noun, capitalized for a reason


 No.2543527

>>2543486

Isn't he pretty reactionary tho, like he supports the camps in Guinea?


 No.2543823

>>2543479

>extremes in weather

check

>genocide of an aboriginal people

check

>stupid and proud type attitudes

check

>loud as hell

check

this is just america with biscuits and tea.


 No.2543867

>>2542393

>sourceless claim


 No.2544003

>>2543527

Yeah he's a little reactionary but only on social issues


 No.2544170

File: fd793e8ba9e3c82⋯.jpg (76.58 KB, 699x461, 699:461, a12d02a9a7ac8f196f042823c4….jpg)

>>2541487

>What would you define as a successful organization?

An organisation remotely capable of ever implementing its ideology.

Any idiot off the street can start a political organization; It is the foundation of a successful organization that is so very rare and challenging.

>>2543470

That is an overly idealist view of matters that speaks towards your own lack of experience in such political organisations, especially leftist organisations.

I do not have the time or desire to list off the pitfalls that such an organisation would face.

However I would ask the you remind yourself that just about all leftist organisations in this country have be founded upon such ideas; Almost off of which have subsequently failed and died off or still barely cling to life far beyond even the outer most fringes of political relevancy.

Simply put.

That is why you need either a large amount of capital or some amazing new ideology should you wish you found a successful leftist political organization in this country.

As just about every group that has ever attempted to exist without such things has utterly failed and died on the vine.

>>2542207

>>2543867

It takes seconds to look this shit up, fam.

"Premier Lenin, is a great admirer of Daniel De Leon, considering him the greatest of modern Socialists; The only one who has added anything to socialist thought since Marx.

It is Lenin’s opinion, that the industrial state as conceived by De Leon will ultimately have to be the form of government in Russia.”

- John Reed, 'The Weekly People', 11/5/18.


 No.2545051

Australia is already a /leftypol/ paradise.

You have a choice between the communist Labor party and the Liberals.

No right wingers in sight. Except Auntie Pauline who they keep around for a joke.


 No.2545053

>>2541285

It can't be because, ironically, it got taken over by pro-capitalist student lefties, while the pro-Union right wing elements slithered off to the fringes to complain about all of the migrants that Labor was relying on in NSW and Victoria to boost their voting power.


 No.2545054

>>2545051

>This is how /pol/ actually views the world

kek


 No.2545056

>>2543823

>Extremes in weather

Only in portions of the nation, namely the tropical zones.

>genocide

The Aboriginal population is more than double what it was upon first contact. There was no genocide, and in fact they are provided with a first world standard of living (should they choose to partake) for "free".

>stupid and proud type attitudes

So the same as every other area on the planet populated by humans

>loud as hell

Not compared to anywhere in Africa, Latin America or South East Asia.


 No.2545057

>>2545054

>Implying /pol/ views the world objectively and factually


 No.2545111

File: 0d4983e10314e35⋯.jpg (14.31 KB, 238x256, 119:128, stalin-laughing-02.jpg)

>>2545051

>Australia is already a /leftypol/ paradise.

>You have a choice between the communist Labor party and the Liberals.

>No right wingers in sight

>communist Labor party

>the Liberals

>/leftypol/ paradise

Is this what happens when you eat from the trashcan of ideology?


 No.2545133

>>2541381

>they are almost certainly the product of some ASIO operation.

This is the second thread in which I've seen you level this accusation. It's a very serious accusation to lob at an organisation. Once again I ask: Do you have a single shred of proof for this accusation? It's one thing to say you don't like them or their politics, it's entriely another thing to say that they're fundamentally an ASIO operation.


 No.2545137

>>2545056

>no genocide

I knew leftypol could be reactionary at times but this is simply false.

The Tasmanian Indigenous people practically disappeared and their numbers only recently recovered from nearly being wiped out.

You're being as idiotic as a /pol/tard who thinks because there are 14 million Jews alive today the Holocaust never happened.


 No.2545144

>>2544170

What do you mean by implementing its ideology? If you mean making its ideology the dominant one then only a handful of groups through history have achieved this. I'm not sure what else you could mean?

I'd consider any group which works to building class consciousness a successful one, not sure why you need a lot of capital to do that. I that with practically zero investment.


 No.2545204

I left the greens party a few years back with Ludlam, i had already been kicked out of the young greens when i called someone a retard for saying trans people where the most oppressed people in society, and they called me out for abelist language. But i enjoyed the main party since as idpol as a lot of people were, their primary focus was the environment which i can easily get behind. But when Scott left, i felt like i lost the only friend i had in the party and left with him (still catch up with him regularly if you wanted me to ask him any questions as what it was like being a minority government member in the senate hint: it's fucked, you don't do shit, and the only time you matter is when one of the major parties needs you to fuck over one aspect of society for them and swing the vote in their favor At this point i feel incredibly disconnected with any sort of political involvement, went to a SA meeting and it was a bunch of people who jerk off "people's action" and would rather protest a problem then solve it, went to CPA meeting and i was the youngest guy there by a solid 30+ years, as much as i liked everyone there, they all knew they weren't winning any elections and were only just around as a social group, admittedly a nice one with incredibly smart theorists in their midst. I don't really see a place for myself protesting, so i mainly stick to volunteer work where i actually feel like and see that i'm making a huge difference in some people's lives. If capitalism really is going to end within my life time, then i'll have no problem being first up on the barricades, but till then i just get bored in 6+ hour political meetings where more often then not it's a circle jerk of agreement on the same topic, where one person says something and everyone claps, and then another person says the same thing but worded slightly differently and everyone claps harder


 No.2545208

>>2545133

You've obviously never encountered them in real life mate haha. They're not ASIO obviously, but when their politics and actions are identical to what you'd expect from a psyop, does it matter?


 No.2545209

>>2545111

no, this is what happens when you're fourteen.


 No.2545214

>>2541381

>the biggest shitposting namefag is Australian

I am not surprised at all.


 No.2545240

>>2545208

I have encountered them in real life, they're a bog-standard pack of idpol-y hipster trots. I don't like their politics or their praxis. People can and should shit on them all day long. My point is that there's a fucking big difference between an organisation's politics being shit and an organisation being an ASIO op. The former is par for the course with leftist shitflinging, the latter is an extremely fucking serious accusation. This is the second time I've seen Howard Scott specifically level that accusation against the salties. I want him to either back his shit up with some evidence or stop saying it. I've no problem with anything else he says about them, I just find the ASIO thing to cross a line. If he has evidence, people who are involved with or near them need to be warned. If he doesn't have any evidence, he's just parroting the demented rambling of some old CPA coot.


 No.2545241

>>2545240

Yeah, I had warning signals go off too when he accused them of being an ASIO psy-op. I see almost no evidence of this being true, and instead find the explanation that they're just a bunch of dejected trots with a cult mentality far more likely.


 No.2545815

Socialist Alliance member here. Ask me questions if you want.

Main point I'd like to make is that we're not Trots - while some of the older members are Trots from the old Democratic Socialist Party, they're still Trots that broke with the 4th International before it came apart. The Alliance, true to our founding documents, is multi-tendency and not orthodox or dogmatic. There's not even a requirement to stick to a 'party line' when discussing theory, inside or outside of the party, and members can make off-message statements.

Personally I am a Marxist LibSoc with an ex-anarchist background (got really mad at lifestylism) and I have had absolutely no ideological issues dealing with other party members with different theoretical backgrounds. Lots of good discussion and synthesis. We're friendly with elements of the Left Greens/Left Renewal/Grassroots.

We're also part of the Victorian Socialists campaign fighting to get Steve Jolly into the Victorian Upper House. #2 (behind Steve) on the ticket is Sue Bolton, our long-time councillor on the Moreland council. I don't think it is an exaggeration to say it is one of the most exciting anti-sectarian campaigns in Australian political history. SAlt are even on-board, and despite some previous bad experiences working with them (it varies branch by branch and campaign by campaign) by all means I think they should be applauded for getting in to a unity ticket.


 No.2545917

>>2545241

Is Howard an ASIO psy-op?




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Cancer][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / agatha / arepa / ausneets / hkon9 / hkpol / india / sei / vg ]